The Harley-Davidson 2021 "Live" Virtual Product Launch

[alarmguy]

At this point in the game, I don't think Harley is going to drop the Livewire. They've already commited a production line, and development budget for the bike. Plus that's what they are pinning their future on selling to the up and coming riders who don't want a gas motorcycle.

I got to agree with you, Liviewire may not be for right now to a lot of us but its a learning experience for the company, assuming they like any company survive the transformation of society in general.
GM fully expects to phase out or better said, has a goal to no longer be producing gas and diesel engine vehicles by the year 2035, 14 years from now. That is like wow! of a statement!
The world is moving forward. A company right now is working on a battery/technology that can be recharged in 20 minutes to a full charge. They have the technology and now working to upsize it to scale, hoping for 5 years from now.

In fact maybe electric bikes will attract the younger generation, they wont have to get their hands dirty, just jump on the bike and go. Honestly, I think they will be looked down on as to dangerous by the younger generation I think it is proving itself true based on the declining sales.
And we talk sales I could care less what sells in third world countries or countries with half or more less disposable income. Im talking USA.

Sadly, on my way home from work a little while ago, traffic backed up right where I get off the interstate to get to my home close by.
Ambulance was getting on the interstate and literally a mile from my house, there was the sport bike at the rural interchange laying on its side in the middle of the street. Firetrucks blocking the road and a white blanket over something on the side of the road.
I cant confirm it was a rider or person under the blanket, I know one person was on the way to the hospital and could almost swear it was a person with a plaid shirt under the blanket but I honestly was to far as I was directed the other way on the exit ramp. Hate seeing that stuff the image gets stuck in my mind.
Anyway, with the media and the news and hearing every horrible event I am sure this will ensure the constant decline of riding and every sense of self being/adventure in this new world.

 

[Bonz]

We can talk USA all we want and not the rest of the developing world but Harley needs to survive as a company and they won’t do it if it’s the USA alone. They can thank their lucky stars there is a “rest of the world”.

 

[alarmguy]

We can talk USA all we want and not the rest of the developing world but Harley needs to survive as a company and they won’t do it if it’s the USA alone. They can thank their lucky stars there is a “rest of the world”.

^^ Editorial^^

 

[Bonz]

^^ Editorial^^

What? I don’t understand what you mean by that. Harley Davidson is in deep Doo Doo, and no words or number crunching is going to get them out of it unless people start buying their bikes.

I fail to see how the last few lengthy posts are anything but a crutch to hold up the argument that Harley somehow is succeeding right now.

 

[gman2304]

“Rumors of Harley’s demise are greatly exaggerated” !

 

[alarmguy]

“Rumors of Harley’s demise are greatly exaggerated” !

Dont you just love fortune tellers? I wish to god they would tell me the future of companies before things happen so I can invest based on their thoughts. Haha!
Hey, who knows where Harley or any company is going? Gotta love the predictions though, during the time of a global pandemic that has upended every industry and motorcycle no less, a dying USA pastime. I will say one thing, producers of cheap bikes will always do well, look at Honda and all he mopeds. They also have deep pockets.

Then there are specialty manufacturers. Doesnt matter what vehicle it is. Harley is the specialty manufacturer of motorcycles along with some overseas makers as well. There are also specialty manufacturers of automobiles that you will not see making econobox automobiles.
Its really up to the shareholders which was a company will go. Time will tell.
So back to the future ... its a matter of time before electric bikes and cars will rule the roads. I do wonder if bikes will be banned from certain roads in the future as nanny government takes control. Just a matter of time.

But, basing their thoughts on a slimy company like Polaris? Who's main business isnt even motorcycles? Maybe it will be one day, who knows.
I do think it would be a cool idea for Harley to get into ATVs and Snowmobiles. Wow! They would fly out of showrooms, then Polaris watchers can scratch their heads wondering what is going on *LOL*

 

[BigCahuna]

I really doubt Harley would ever close up and go away. They're always some company that feels they could turn it around and make money with it. Just like what the "NEW" Harley company did when they bought it from AMF. And as far as selling things other then motorcycle's, they have been there and done that. Do a search and look up Harley Golf carts. I'll save you a search for the Harley Snowmobiles. https://www.hotcars.com/harley-davidson-snowmobile-division-story/

 

[02SE]

But, basing their thoughts on a slimy company like Polaris?

I'm just curious what makes Polaris a slimy company?

 

[ZeeOSix]

But, basing their thoughts on a slimy company like Polaris? Who's main business isnt even motorcycles? Maybe it will be one day, who knows.
I do think it would be a cool idea for Harley to get into ATVs and Snowmobiles. Wow! They would fly out of showrooms, then Polaris watchers can scratch their heads wondering what is going on *LOL*'

They use to ... https://www.cycleworld.com/bet-you-didnt-know-harley-davidson-once-sold-snowmobiles/

 

[alarmguy]

I'm just curious what makes Polaris a slimy company?

Nothing really *LOL* Maybe an overstatement, my perception of the company, trying to get hard sales figures for their USA bikes are not disclosed, sales increases driven by the slingshot grouped with the bikes, ya da ya da. They get a lot of attention yet barely on the radar when it comes to heavy cruisers market share in USA of around 5%
I suspect their cheaper bikes will be the future though but not the big bikes.

 

[alarmguy]

I really doubt Harley would ever close up and go away. They're always some company that feels they could turn it around and make money with it. Just like what the "NEW" Harley company did when they bought it from AMF. And as far as selling things other then motorcycle's, they have been there and done that. Do a search and look up Harley Golf carts. I'll save you a search for the Harley Snowmobiles. https://www.hotcars.com/harley-davidson-snowmobile-division-story/

Yes, just a few years back, the "board" /share holders turned down an offer from insiders of Harley to buy them out and make the company private again. I bet they wish they took the offer now.

Thing is as a private company they would be able to run the company the way they want preserving Harley and what it stood for.
Lets face it, motorcycles in the USA are dead forever except for a specialized group and Harley as a private company would not need the sales figures they need for Shareholders to make a profit.

There ARE specialized vehicle makers in the world with wonderful reputations that are surviving quite nicely.
AS far as the snowmobiles golf carts .. its all BS from the old days, my god, 50 years ago meaning you cant compare decades ago with today. When everyone in every rural area owns an ATV or snowmobile or golf cart today. More or less our standard of living/taking out loans has increased since those days... but whatever. Im not promoting it but it cant be compared to decades ago.

We are a throwaway society now and I do see some companies doing ok with throwaway bikes much like Bic throwaway lighters 50 years ago.

Poptarts will be riding on the back of their boyfriends bikes, the thrill will last a year maybe two, sit around and get thrown out because it was so cheap to buy and the market flooded with them compared to high end bikes that will still be around. I seriously doubt Indians high end touring bikes will survive or maybe better said make a profit for the company. They just dont sell enough, never will and failed beyond expectations. But then again, like I said, to many big cruisers available for a shrinking pool of riders. Its why the Japanese starting bailing out of the big cruiser market well over a decade ago.

The only way to make motorcycles appeal to young riders is figure out a way to air condition them so they dont have to break a sweat. *LOL*

That is where an electric bike might appeal, there will be almost no heat coming from it. WOW, what a thought actually, no heat! Heck, I might even find that appealing as I get older, battery technology getting better ya da ya da and the power will blow the doors off anything gas,

 

[4WD]

Younger generations don't care about motorcycles because they can't ride and surf on their phone as easily as in a car.

Yep … and not a necessity … not something many women purchase … not typically a “point, click, ship” purchase that was not impacted by the current depression …

 

[Bonz]

Well I’m gonna open mouth and insert foot here boys... Reading up on some of the new pattents that Harley has come up with, looks like they are going to do some pretty cool things with bike technology and rider aids.

 

[BigCahuna]

Well I’m gonna open mouth and insert foot here boys... Reading up on some of the new pattents that Harley has come up with, looks like they are going to do some pretty cool things with bike technology and rider aids.

Harley and other companies at some point come up with cool ideas and names for potential new concepts. They'll copyright a name so another company can't use it. And just because they copyright a vehicle design, doesn't mean guaranteed production. They probably have draws full of drawings that will never see the light of day. Years back one of those concepts was leaked out. The motor looked to be square 4 cyl if I recall correctly, and in a sportster like frame. Nothing ever became of it tho. In past years Harley tried making vehicles beside motorcycle. They made them until , my guess is they weren't making money on them and dropped them from production. Some ideas just don't pan out. One example is the 2006 V-Rod destroyer. Their out of the box factory race bike anybody could by. A Non street legal bike , wheelie bared and with open headers, with no pollution controls on them. It it could run in the high 9's with the right rider. For $26,000 it could be yours. The only problem was, for half that amount you could by a Hayabusa or Kawasaki that could run about as fast with a little work, and was street legal. The numbers just didn't work out for many buyers. Harley always comes out of the gate with a sticker shock price tag. Like they want to make all their R&D money back along with high profit ,with every bike they create. If Wille G was still with the company, I'd bet the V-Rod would still be in production. After all he has the Harley name and it was his baby from conception. Nothing says the can't reanimate a discontinued model, but with shareholders to answer to, and customers looking to spend their cash elsewhere, finding the next big thing isn't easy to select. Just because you can make something, doesn't always mean you should.,,,

 

[alarmguy]

^^ but every vechicle maker does the same ... and darn it .. Because of the stupid motorcycle threads I might just take a ride with my wife to look at the stripped down Electra glide standard ... lol ... never had a bike with a fairing, Though the thought of buffeting bothers me with one.. I know the feeling of want to get one will pass, most likely. The only technology I do want any bike and currently have on my RoadKing is ABS.
I can only assume the oil migration issue has been solved by now.

 

[gman2304]

^Uh.....welcome?

 

[Jarlaxle]

I would rather have a cable than hydraulic clutch.

 

[alarmguy]

I would rather have a cable than hydraulic clutch

No secret that I agree. Most all the higher priced and some low prices bikes are getting so far away from simplicity that I feel is a further turn off from riding. For me anyway, I jump on the bike to get away from all this crap.
I know I am the odd guy out on much of this but then again, the industry itself is not exactly flourishing so maybe I am not that far out there.
Not just about Harley either.

I rather a Kawasaki Concours 14 with less electronics then the other bikes in that class. its does what its supposed to do, does it right and cost much less.
Same reason I ride a 14 Road King, same touring frame and engine as all the fairing models, less electronics.
I dont think its just the price but might be some of it? Meaning when I bought the Road King new the Street Glide was only less then 2k more but it wasnt for me.
Maybe its because I am older now? I dont know but know its not only about age.

Wife and I went looking for a New Electra Glide Standard to check out at two Harley dealers yesterday, one of the dealers is a high volume dealer (hate the place but always have a lot of bikes in stock) Not one in the showrooms, not one Road King but plenty of 25 to $40,000 bikes.
Are you freaking kidding me? that is what my wife and I were thinking. You know, the industry is sunk if one day, people stop taking out backwards loans to buy this stuff.

I have to ride up to 2 hours to two different states in two different directions if I want to see one. Is this because dealers dont want to sell them or is it because Harley doesnt want to sell a decent $18,000 touring bike?
I think they need to change their thinking, give me a good stripped down $18,000 touring bike in the same class as the $25,000 ones with a fairing and I will buy one tomorrow.
I just cant help think, if they lined these things up in showrooms that they would sell with a couple refinements. Like, lets lose the empty speaker holes in addition to turning the center console radio area into a PROPER glove box with a lid. Would cost HD pennies to do but want to turn off as many people as they can I guess from buying the bike.
I think I want one but who knows if my 14 RK maybe my last HD, wife is coming around on the Concours 14 sport tourer something I would like for a change BUT most likely would still jump on a stripped down Electra Glide (maybe) and here is why.

Wife rides with me a lot (brought this good point up yesterday) and I agree, the RK hands down makes us secure riding in sometimes afternoon violent storms, rain and showers. We go right through them on the interstates, not thrilled about it but we have rode through dozens, sometimes violent storms to the point that we passed by a couple dozen cars pulled over on the interstate as we slowly and carefully with heads down rode passed them all. Another time storms were developing on a trip to the coast in the late afternoon, rode through 5 hours of on and off getting hammered by rain, sometimes wind to the point that we though we were seeing funnel clouds in the distance.
One time solo which I care not to repeat, I litterly had to be sitting in 2 inches of water on my seat after a semi trailer hit a rut in the road and like a fire hose was hitting me and the bike with water.
Anyway, wife brought up this point, the Road King got us all through that, would a sport tourer and its thinner tires, maybe less weight, higher center of gravity be as stable.... I dont think so, in fact would not attempt it ... but then again, as we get older will I still be doing these couple hour trips from home, yes I think so and why I am still curious about the Electra Glide standard but Harley dealers make you jump through hoops here in SC to see one or maybe I am the odd one out and no one wants one.

 

[BigCahuna]

I get what your saying. I've never rode a bike with hydraulic clutch, so I won't miss it. I have been thinking about possibly replacing my current bike with a brand new one. But not a Harley. I know a guy that has a 2010 Kawasaki voyager , that rides alot and really like his bike. So I've been looking at reviews online to see what people and magazine's say about them. I would have to go to a dealer and at least sit on one to see how it feels. A test ride on even an older model would be enough for me, as they haven't changed that much thru the years.The biggest thing I've heard is that with the latest EPA rules, the Kawasaki's seem to be choked down. But theres is a fix. It's called the "Ivan reflash". It supposedly addresses a bunch of things to improve the bikes overall attitude. Cost's about $350, and those that had it done say it's worth every penny. From what I've read, they are supposedly pretty reliable bikes. Back to Harley's empty showrooms, I read somewhere that Harley is trying to recreate the early '90's run on their showrooms, by limiting production and creating demand. That might have worked once when there was a demand, but with fairly new low mileage Harley's for sale on every street corner, there's more supply than demand.,,,

 

[Jarlaxle]

No secret that I agree. Most all the higher priced and some low prices bikes are getting so far away from simplicity that I feel is a further turn off from riding. For me anyway, I jump on the bike to get away from all this crap.
I know I am the odd guy out on much of this but then again, the industry itself is not exactly flourishing so maybe I am not that far out there.
Not just about Harley either.

I rather a Kawasaki Concours 14 with less electronics then the other bikes in that class. its does what its supposed to do, does it right and cost much less.
Same reason I ride a 14 Road King, same touring frame and engine as all the fairing models, less electronics.
I dont think its just the price but might be some of it? Meaning when I bought the Road King new the Street Glide was only less then 2k more but it wasnt for me.
Maybe its because I am older now? I dont know but know its not only about age.

Wife and I went looking for a New Electra Glide Standard to check out at two Harley dealers yesterday, one of the dealers is a high volume dealer (hate the place but always have a lot of bikes in stock) Not one in the showrooms, not one Road King but plenty of 25 to $40,000 bikes.
Are you freaking kidding me? that is what my wife and I were thinking. You know, the industry is sunk if one day, people stop taking out backwards loans to buy this stuff.

I have to ride up to 2 hours to two different states in two different directions if I want to see one. Is this because dealers dont want to sell them or is it because Harley doesnt want to sell a decent $18,000 touring bike?
I think they need to change their thinking, give me a good stripped down $18,000 touring bike in the same class as the $25,000 ones with a fairing and I will buy one tomorrow.
I just cant help think, if they lined these things up in showrooms that they would sell with a couple refinements. Like, lets lose the empty speaker holes in addition to turning the center console radio area into a PROPER glove box with a lid. Would cost HD pennies to do but want to turn off as many people as they can I guess from buying the bike.
I think I want one but who knows if my 14 RK maybe my last HD, wife is coming around on the Concours 14 sport tourer something I would like for a change BUT most likely would still jump on a stripped down Electra Glide (maybe) and here is why.

Wife rides with me a lot (brought this good point up yesterday) and I agree, the RK hands down makes us secure riding in sometimes afternoon violent storms, rain and showers. We go right through them on the interstates, not thrilled about it but we have rode through dozens, sometimes violent storms to the point that we passed by a couple dozen cars pulled over on the interstate as we slowly and carefully with heads down rode passed them all. Another time storms were developing on a trip to the coast in the late afternoon, rode through 5 hours of on and off getting hammered by rain, sometimes wind to the point that we though we were seeing funnel clouds in the distance.
One time solo which I care not to repeat, I litterly had to be sitting in 2 inches of water on my seat after a semi trailer hit a rut in the road and like a fire hose was hitting me and the bike with water.
Anyway, wife brought up this point, the Road King got us all through that, would a sport tourer and its thinner tires, maybe less weight, higher center of gravity be as stable.... I dont think so, in fact would not attempt it ... but then again, as we get older will I still be doing these couple hour trips from home, yes I think so and why I am still curious about the Electra Glide standard but Harley dealers make you jump through hoops here in SC to see one or maybe I am the odd one out and no one wants one.

What about a Softail, either Deluxe or Heritage?

I'd never buy new...there are too many low-mileage used bikes available.