If the contractor didn't size the unit and perform a manual J and a manual S then that's a problem. HVAC isn't plug and play. There is a science behind everything. With HVAC, you ALWAYS get what you pay for.
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That's some service! (New Central AC...)
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Originally Posted By: Dave1027
Yeah, never heard of Daikin. I just had a 3 1/2 ton American Standard system (supposed to be the same as Trane) installed into a 1600 sq ft house single story house. It works really nice. Haven't even got my first electric bill yet. We'll see.
Not wanting to thread jack but can somebody tell me if I should register this new system with the manufacturer? The installer said not to. He said he'd warranty the system for 10 years. I'm thinking I should send in my registration any way in case the guy moves away? He is a certified HVAC business and very well known in town.
I know this because I just had a 4 ton American Standard 16 seer heat pump system installed for two of the four zones in my home. You only have 60 days after the installation date to register your components AND qualify for the 10 year limited warranty. In my case, my dealer/installer submitted my registration. But you can do it yourself directly on the American Standard web site if the installer doesn't do it. You need the full model numbers and serial numbers of your components.
Yeah, never heard of Daikin. I just had a 3 1/2 ton American Standard system (supposed to be the same as Trane) installed into a 1600 sq ft house single story house. It works really nice. Haven't even got my first electric bill yet. We'll see.
Not wanting to thread jack but can somebody tell me if I should register this new system with the manufacturer? The installer said not to. He said he'd warranty the system for 10 years. I'm thinking I should send in my registration any way in case the guy moves away? He is a certified HVAC business and very well known in town.
I know this because I just had a 4 ton American Standard 16 seer heat pump system installed for two of the four zones in my home. You only have 60 days after the installation date to register your components AND qualify for the 10 year limited warranty. In my case, my dealer/installer submitted my registration. But you can do it yourself directly on the American Standard web site if the installer doesn't do it. You need the full model numbers and serial numbers of your components.
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
I know this because I just had a 4 ton American Standard 16 seer heat pump system installed for two of the four zones in my home. You only have 60 days after the installation date to register your components AND qualify for the 10 year limited warranty. In my case, my dealer/installer submitted my registration. But you can do it yourself directly on the American Standard web site if the installer doesn't do it. You need the full model numbers and serial numbers of your components.
Thanks, Norman.
I know this because I just had a 4 ton American Standard 16 seer heat pump system installed for two of the four zones in my home. You only have 60 days after the installation date to register your components AND qualify for the 10 year limited warranty. In my case, my dealer/installer submitted my registration. But you can do it yourself directly on the American Standard web site if the installer doesn't do it. You need the full model numbers and serial numbers of your components.
Thanks, Norman.
Zee09
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Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
I see you've made up your mind, but frankly adding a new central air unit to a 29 year old air handler is a mistake. It defeats the purpose of having an efficient system that saves on your electric bill. And Daikin/Goodman is not exactly a Trane or Carrier, unless you like Asian made systems. Sounds like the classic axiom, you get what you pay for.
Good luck. You'll likely need it.
Give the guy a break. Trane are junk. You read too much sales hype.
I've seen a local AC graveyard and it was filled with more Tranes that any other brand. I have personal experience with Carrier too. If you want to have two service calls a year thats your brand. BTW. I have four Trane units myself in a second home and they are trouble. Both ac and propane heaters.
I see you've made up your mind, but frankly adding a new central air unit to a 29 year old air handler is a mistake. It defeats the purpose of having an efficient system that saves on your electric bill. And Daikin/Goodman is not exactly a Trane or Carrier, unless you like Asian made systems. Sounds like the classic axiom, you get what you pay for.
Good luck. You'll likely need it.
Give the guy a break. Trane are junk. You read too much sales hype.
I've seen a local AC graveyard and it was filled with more Tranes that any other brand. I have personal experience with Carrier too. If you want to have two service calls a year thats your brand. BTW. I have four Trane units myself in a second home and they are trouble. Both ac and propane heaters.
Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: xBa380
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
A/C unit is definitely oversized, not good. I'd be calling and asking for a 2-1/2 ton.
To be honest, we discussed that as the current unit is 2.5 ton. The upstairs doesn't cool quite as well as the downstairs and we have a split level home (basement, 1st floor (ground level), 2nd floor (elevated) and 3rd floor where the bedrooms are). Upstairs is usually a few degrees warmer, even when I try to adjust the dampers well to direct more cool air upstairs. Lots of windows and such up top.
When it was running, the current unit ran almost non-stop. Literally. Which I know is not necessarily a bad thing.
Also mind you, I keep my house quite cool. If it's 80 out, it likely will be set at 72 during the day and 68 at night. I like it cold... If it's 90, it will be at 74-75 inside. Same night temps.
According to any sizing guide I find online, 1600sq-ft homes are right on the 2.5 or 3.0 ton sizing... One or the other. I'm guessing because I told him the upstairs doesn't cool as well, he decided on the 3.
I was in the same situation. I went the way you did and it worked out great.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
A/C unit is definitely oversized, not good. I'd be calling and asking for a 2-1/2 ton.
To be honest, we discussed that as the current unit is 2.5 ton. The upstairs doesn't cool quite as well as the downstairs and we have a split level home (basement, 1st floor (ground level), 2nd floor (elevated) and 3rd floor where the bedrooms are). Upstairs is usually a few degrees warmer, even when I try to adjust the dampers well to direct more cool air upstairs. Lots of windows and such up top.
When it was running, the current unit ran almost non-stop. Literally. Which I know is not necessarily a bad thing.
Also mind you, I keep my house quite cool. If it's 80 out, it likely will be set at 72 during the day and 68 at night. I like it cold... If it's 90, it will be at 74-75 inside. Same night temps.
According to any sizing guide I find online, 1600sq-ft homes are right on the 2.5 or 3.0 ton sizing... One or the other. I'm guessing because I told him the upstairs doesn't cool as well, he decided on the 3.
I was in the same situation. I went the way you did and it worked out great.
Originally Posted By: Dave1027
Not wanting to thread jack but can somebody tell me if I should register this new system with the manufacturer? The installer said not to. He said he'd warranty the system for 10 years. I'm thinking I should send in my registration any way in case the guy moves away? He is a certified HVAC business and very well known in town.
Already been answered, but most definitely! The local Rheem dealer registers all paper work for the customers. Your local installer is only a single heartbeat away from going out of business. If you installer goes out of business, how are you going to get warranty work?
Not wanting to thread jack but can somebody tell me if I should register this new system with the manufacturer? The installer said not to. He said he'd warranty the system for 10 years. I'm thinking I should send in my registration any way in case the guy moves away? He is a certified HVAC business and very well known in town.
Already been answered, but most definitely! The local Rheem dealer registers all paper work for the customers. Your local installer is only a single heartbeat away from going out of business. If you installer goes out of business, how are you going to get warranty work?
Increasing the duct diameter to your 3rd floor bedroom will decrease the flow resistance, giving you more CFM. You may also have to replace the register bucket. Are your registers in the ceiling, wall or floor?
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: dja4260
If the contractor didn't size the unit and perform a manual J and a manual S then that's a problem. HVAC isn't plug and play. There is a science behind everything. With HVAC, you ALWAYS get what you pay for.
Most A/C guys won’t do that, unfortunately. Upping a system with duct work for a smaller system, that could have been too small to begin with, isn’t good.
Hotter upstairs bedrooms means there’s a duct work issue, something the size of the unit won’t fix. And often times a single unit can’t comfortably cool and heat multiple stories, you’ll need 2 smaller units for that. Or a mini split for upstairs and a smaller regular unit downstairs.
But who knows, it might work good enough.
If the contractor didn't size the unit and perform a manual J and a manual S then that's a problem. HVAC isn't plug and play. There is a science behind everything. With HVAC, you ALWAYS get what you pay for.
Most A/C guys won’t do that, unfortunately. Upping a system with duct work for a smaller system, that could have been too small to begin with, isn’t good.
Hotter upstairs bedrooms means there’s a duct work issue, something the size of the unit won’t fix. And often times a single unit can’t comfortably cool and heat multiple stories, you’ll need 2 smaller units for that. Or a mini split for upstairs and a smaller regular unit downstairs.
But who knows, it might work good enough.
U can put 9 ton AC unit it it's still going to be hotter upstairs then downstairs. Heat rises cold air drops.Only way to comfortably cool both floors is two separate systems.
Guys were at the house at 4pm and installed and out by 7pm. Unit is blowing 57F at the registers and has been cooling the house from 75F down to 68F the past hour and a half as a test (we don't really need AC at the moment, cooler outside). Unit is quiet outside, installed perfectly level. Ran new high pressure lines to the evaporator. Even more air flow upstairs in the upper most level, current 2-deg cooler than the other rooms once I re-balanced the dampers. New evaporator has lower restriction, so more flow than the one they took out. Replaced copper drain tubes with PVC. Did a nice job sealing any seems and air leaks. Looks like it was done well.
The only "downfall" was they had to blow out some drywall in the basement to the unit outside. I looked and I agreed with them... No other way to do it. The lines ran above the drop ceiling and then down a good 1.5ft behind the wall and then elbowed outside. I will just re-insulate and patch the dry-wall, no big deal.
All in all, so far so good. We shall see how it performs when it's 93-94F this weekend!
The only "downfall" was they had to blow out some drywall in the basement to the unit outside. I looked and I agreed with them... No other way to do it. The lines ran above the drop ceiling and then down a good 1.5ft behind the wall and then elbowed outside. I will just re-insulate and patch the dry-wall, no big deal.
All in all, so far so good. We shall see how it performs when it's 93-94F this weekend!
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Enjoy
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Originally Posted By: Zee09
Give the guy a break. Trane are junk. You read too much sales hype. I've seen a local AC graveyard and it was filled with more Tranes that any other brand. I have personal experience with Carrier too. If you want to have two service calls a year thats your brand. BTW. I have four Trane units myself in a second home and they are trouble. Both ac and propane heaters.
Meh...everyone will have a slightly different experience. I just replaced a 16 year old Carrier that only gave us trouble in its last 3 years. Replaced it with a new Trane unit with a 10 year warranty, so I am not worried. Goodman units are made by Daikin which is made in Asia. The Goodman "factory" is not far down 290 from me and it is an assembly line. Many of my neighbors have Goodman--some of the noisiest units around, my Trane is very quiet and at 18 SEER, saves on the electric bills too.
OP - I would not be concerned about the extra 1/2 ton of cooling. All houses "loosen up" as they age and unless you are replacing weatherstripping every few years along with windows every 10 or so, you will likely need the extra cooling to compensate.
Give the guy a break. Trane are junk. You read too much sales hype. I've seen a local AC graveyard and it was filled with more Tranes that any other brand. I have personal experience with Carrier too. If you want to have two service calls a year thats your brand. BTW. I have four Trane units myself in a second home and they are trouble. Both ac and propane heaters.
Meh...everyone will have a slightly different experience. I just replaced a 16 year old Carrier that only gave us trouble in its last 3 years. Replaced it with a new Trane unit with a 10 year warranty, so I am not worried. Goodman units are made by Daikin which is made in Asia. The Goodman "factory" is not far down 290 from me and it is an assembly line. Many of my neighbors have Goodman--some of the noisiest units around, my Trane is very quiet and at 18 SEER, saves on the electric bills too.
OP - I would not be concerned about the extra 1/2 ton of cooling. All houses "loosen up" as they age and unless you are replacing weatherstripping every few years along with windows every 10 or so, you will likely need the extra cooling to compensate.
xBa380, good luck with the new system! It's great to be comfortable in the summer. I'd hate to live without air conditioning.
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Goodman units are made by Daikin which is made in Asia.
Daikin is a Japanese company, the same as Honda, Toyota, and Subaroo. It seems if one researches this topic a bit, it appears that most, if not all of the U.S. brands assemble their units in the U.S. with parts made everywhere (China and Mexico, especially). If anyone cares to spend some time reading the following HVAC "professional" forum thread (granted,from 2010), it doesn't sound like Goodman is much different from all the rest: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?469032-Which-furnaces-and-A-C-are-made-in-the-USA.
It's my opinion that many companies that used to be noted for high quality have fallen to our consumer cheapness needs while other companies have stepped up their game plan with huge improvements. I saw this in my windshield replacement research in December. The big players are sourcing stuff from China while the Chinese FUYAU just built a new state of the art mfg. facility in Georgia. I'm not convinced that Goodman is the black sheep of the HVAC industry that it might have been 20 years ago.
Goodman units are made by Daikin which is made in Asia.
Daikin is a Japanese company, the same as Honda, Toyota, and Subaroo. It seems if one researches this topic a bit, it appears that most, if not all of the U.S. brands assemble their units in the U.S. with parts made everywhere (China and Mexico, especially). If anyone cares to spend some time reading the following HVAC "professional" forum thread (granted,from 2010), it doesn't sound like Goodman is much different from all the rest: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?469032-Which-furnaces-and-A-C-are-made-in-the-USA.
It's my opinion that many companies that used to be noted for high quality have fallen to our consumer cheapness needs while other companies have stepped up their game plan with huge improvements. I saw this in my windshield replacement research in December. The big players are sourcing stuff from China while the Chinese FUYAU just built a new state of the art mfg. facility in Georgia. I'm not convinced that Goodman is the black sheep of the HVAC industry that it might have been 20 years ago.
Guess everyone has different experiences with had manufacturers. Kind of like people arguing Ford vs Chevy. I've had repeated bad experience with electronics in Bryant (Carrier) but no trouble in two years with Daikin. Carrier isn't a separate corporation so it's hard to track revenue but in terms of employees Daikin is about fifty percent larger than Carrier so it's not a fly by night outfit.
Originally Posted By: Dave1027
Not wanting to thread jack but can somebody tell me if I should register this new system with the manufacturer? The installer said not to. He said he'd warranty the system for 10 years. I'm thinking I should send in my registration any way in case the guy moves away? He is a certified HVAC business and very well known in town.
This is extremely odd, why would any contractor say that? The warranty should come from the manufacturer, isn't the contractor reimbursed for warranty work by them? Why would any contractor wish to assume the liability for something that isn't a direct result of their work?
Makes me wonder if he's really an "official" dealer for them or there's some other issue with the manufacturer knowing this is the contractor that did the work. Beyond that I would want my warranty to come from an entity that has has a better chance of still being around in 10 years, contractors have a habit of coming and going (and retiring).
Not wanting to thread jack but can somebody tell me if I should register this new system with the manufacturer? The installer said not to. He said he'd warranty the system for 10 years. I'm thinking I should send in my registration any way in case the guy moves away? He is a certified HVAC business and very well known in town.
This is extremely odd, why would any contractor say that? The warranty should come from the manufacturer, isn't the contractor reimbursed for warranty work by them? Why would any contractor wish to assume the liability for something that isn't a direct result of their work?
Makes me wonder if he's really an "official" dealer for them or there's some other issue with the manufacturer knowing this is the contractor that did the work. Beyond that I would want my warranty to come from an entity that has has a better chance of still being around in 10 years, contractors have a habit of coming and going (and retiring).
made in japan or made in mexico?
I think you did fine. My neighbor has a goodman its been going for 4.5 years now just fine.
Not everyone lives in phoenix or miami where you need super efficient.
My 1952 cape cod has the same issue with upstairs bedroom.. I just run a 5100btu window unit for a couple months.. otherwise my downstairs could be 50f and the upstairs would still be 78f
The window unit uses 420w running and it runs about 50% of the time on a hot day. Not ideal but much cheaper than installing a mini split system
total cost was under $120 Being 15ft above ground on a hill that is not suitable for any ladders. I'm not worried about window security/theft.
FWIW my carrier system that was installed in 2012 works fine.. no issues so far.
I think you did fine. My neighbor has a goodman its been going for 4.5 years now just fine.
Not everyone lives in phoenix or miami where you need super efficient.
My 1952 cape cod has the same issue with upstairs bedroom.. I just run a 5100btu window unit for a couple months.. otherwise my downstairs could be 50f and the upstairs would still be 78f
The window unit uses 420w running and it runs about 50% of the time on a hot day. Not ideal but much cheaper than installing a mini split system
total cost was under $120 Being 15ft above ground on a hill that is not suitable for any ladders. I'm not worried about window security/theft.
FWIW my carrier system that was installed in 2012 works fine.. no issues so far.
Small update:
On Tuesday it hit about 85F and I had the thermostat set for 72F…. Humidity in the house was at 50-55% RH give or take and the unit was cycling off/on every 10mins or so… 10 on, 10 off for about 6 cycles per hour. I know this isn’t ideal at all. My last unit did the same, though… It was constantly kicking on/off, so it was not unique to the new system. With the old system before it died, RH was usually always in mid to upper 50’s… Apples-to-apples, the new unit is reducing the humidity by about 5% (at this point).
So I located the manual online to see if my Lux thermostat had a differential setting. Found out it does… It has a “swing” setting hidden by pressing specific buttons, which was set for +/- .25 degree by default, which is way too tight… So that is why the AC has always cycled so often and humidity has been on the higher side than desired. Set it for +/- 1.0 degree last night, which seems to be the most standard default value.
So yesterday, with the thermostat being set up properly… It was around 80 and nearly 80-100% humidity out (it was raining), the unit cycled once per hour all evening. Ran for about 30 minutes, off for 30minutes almost on the dot. Humidity was between 45-48% RH.
I may even tighten up the differential to .75 degree, as it seems like 2 CPH may be ideal (15-20min on/off), so I will aim for that. Easy enough to change and play around with, though.
All in all, unit is cooling better (especially the upstairs) and reducing humidity even further than the old 2.5 ton system. This morning the bedroom was at 68F (at setpoint!) and humidity was 54% in the room with two people and a heavy breathing dog all night with door closed. Rest of the house was 48-50%. I'm happy with that!
On Tuesday it hit about 85F and I had the thermostat set for 72F…. Humidity in the house was at 50-55% RH give or take and the unit was cycling off/on every 10mins or so… 10 on, 10 off for about 6 cycles per hour. I know this isn’t ideal at all. My last unit did the same, though… It was constantly kicking on/off, so it was not unique to the new system. With the old system before it died, RH was usually always in mid to upper 50’s… Apples-to-apples, the new unit is reducing the humidity by about 5% (at this point).
So I located the manual online to see if my Lux thermostat had a differential setting. Found out it does… It has a “swing” setting hidden by pressing specific buttons, which was set for +/- .25 degree by default, which is way too tight… So that is why the AC has always cycled so often and humidity has been on the higher side than desired. Set it for +/- 1.0 degree last night, which seems to be the most standard default value.
So yesterday, with the thermostat being set up properly… It was around 80 and nearly 80-100% humidity out (it was raining), the unit cycled once per hour all evening. Ran for about 30 minutes, off for 30minutes almost on the dot. Humidity was between 45-48% RH.
I may even tighten up the differential to .75 degree, as it seems like 2 CPH may be ideal (15-20min on/off), so I will aim for that. Easy enough to change and play around with, though.
All in all, unit is cooling better (especially the upstairs) and reducing humidity even further than the old 2.5 ton system. This morning the bedroom was at 68F (at setpoint!) and humidity was 54% in the room with two people and a heavy breathing dog all night with door closed. Rest of the house was 48-50%. I'm happy with that!
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hey xba380.. As I was reading your update I was thinking of my own Lux thermostat and was going to post about the "swing" differential. Glad you found it! I know I had to mess around with mine til I got it just right.
Was fun reading your good news! Happy for ya! And with this heat we're going to be getting in Michigan, you'll probably be getting it this weekend too! You'll be very happy you got this new system installed, just in time!
Was fun reading your good news! Happy for ya! And with this heat we're going to be getting in Michigan, you'll probably be getting it this weekend too! You'll be very happy you got this new system installed, just in time!
Seems like you have a good set up. I had a similar experience a few years back. The upstairs 2 ton unit could not get the temps down on a really hot day. It just ran and ran. It was a builder grade Coleman. I had a very experienced HVAC guy look at it after his busy season was winding down. Long story short his calculations showed the 2 ton was on the 'line' undersized and he recommended a 2 1/2 ton with matching coil. Ordered Goodman 2 1/2 ton, coil and some valve. It still runs a lot on hot days but cuts off after 30+ minutes. Goodman has been trouble free. Lower temps, lower humidity, lower electric bill.
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