Suggestions for home protection firearm

[Astro14]

I am not a fan of "shoot to wound" - no LEO would recommend that. Not saying that the birdshot won't hurt or incapacitate, but if you shoot to incapacitate, then any lawyer will eat you alive for that action because it calls into question the necessity of your actions. If lethal force is justified, then make it lethal...not some "F-him up" injury-causing shot to the head.

Further, head shots are not recommended. Smaller, more quickly moving target than center mass....you're far more likely to miss.

Shoot for center mass, with something that will cause immediate vital organ damage. Anything less is asking for failure to stop the threat, or returned fire, or a court-room disaster later.

 

[SuperDave456]

Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
Shot placement with a shotgun is needed too. If U intend to use birdshot aim for the head/neck region. I'd defy any man to argue that a 5-10ft shot to the head/neck with high base 12 guage #4 or 6 shot, this guy will be going nowhere! I'm not talking longer shots like Cheney's buddy either. He was alot farther than 5 or 10ft. Blood loss from a head/neck shot at that range not to mention loss of sight (ie NO FRIGGIN' EYES LEFT) will without any doubt put a quick end to his night even though he may not die right away. I'm not sayin' a shotgun with birshot is the best gun and round combo out there but its far better than a pistol you rarely shoot and shoot well under pressure period, end of story!


And please remember that District Attorneys and Juries are typically swayed by evidence based upon emotions.
Using a less than lethal projectile in a potentially lethal way will make a really bad, and expensive, portion of your life even worse and more financially crippling.

Use buckshot, it's cheap, and it was designed for what you will be using it for.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Shotgun in a house...gotta start thinking collateral damage. Not so sure I'd go that route.


Collateral damage is also a potential problem with the 357. You shoot the bad guy, the round goes through him, through your wall, through your neighbor's wall and tags your neighbor. Over penetration.

OTOH, the nice thing about the 357 is you can shoot 38 spl in it.

 

[95busa]

Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: 95busa
After carrying Glocks for 5 years going to the Glock armorers course last week, I can say that Glocks are a pretty smart investment. They don't rust, don't jam, they hold tons of ammo, they have lots of sighting/lighting options and they shoot straight. Also----they are so simple it's ridiculous.

You also forgot they typically have very light recoil in comparison other semi-autos of similar size and caliber.
My Glock 21(.45 acp), an exceptional home defense gun, has the same if not less recoil than a buddies Berretta 92(9mm). Both shooting WWB ammo.


Nah...didn't forget. One thing to keep in mind (I have carried and shot both Glocks and Berettas extensively), the 9mm round is a high pressure cartridge. Snappy recoil with flip. .45ACP is a low pressure cartridge which makes recoil more of a "push". Also, polymer frames are no longer unique to Glocks, so weapons like my SiG P250 .40 have similar recoil reduction characteristics. In fact, all of the major manufacturers have polymer framed models, so that comment is more germane to "all polymer framed weapons" as opposed to Glock specific.

 

[95busa]

This caliber and weapon discussion is kind of overkill. If you are worried about overpenetration the best deal out there is a .223 carbine with ballistic tip loads like TAPs or the like. They overpenetrate far less than even pistol rounds due to high velocity/low weight versus heavy/slow especially when encountering intermediate barriers like doors, 2x4s, plywood, etc. Opinions are like you know what, but when defending your home you make your choice and bear the consequences. Do extensive research (outside of BITOG). The consequences and rewards are yours alone.

 

[Astro14]

When considering a round for home defense, the only criteria for me is how effective it is on bad guys...all the other considerations should be secondary.

.357 has one of the best "on the street" single-shot stopping records of any cartridge....it would be a good choice. But it's not the only choice, .45 ACP, .40S&W, 12 gauge w/ buckshot are all good choices. Personally, I am not a 9mm fan, ask the FBI how it does on big bad guys wearing winter clothing...I know lots of departments carry it...but there were other considerations (ease of shooting, magazine capacity, etc.) in its selection.

And practice, practice, practice...so that you know the weapon you select well, are completely comfortable shooting and operating it (to include clearing jams, loading, etc.) and can consistently hit your target.

It takes 2,000 to 3,000 repetitions to "learn" the muscle-memory for an action. So, after you've done a few thousand combat reloads and a few thousand "tap and rack" clearings on your autoloading pistol, you're ready to trust yourself with it for home defense...

 

[95busa]

I've seen a few people shot. Three with 9mm. Not one of them was very happy about it. Caliber is another thing that is overblown. People survived gunshot wounds in WW2 all the time, and they were slinging 7.92mm, 30.06, etc. I agree caliber plays a role, but get comfortable with this. ALL Pistols=wounders. Shoulder fired weapons=killers. If you think you might need to shoot someone, shoot them with a shotgun with buckshot or a .223 or larger rifle. Pistols are for when you need to conceal a weapon or you are a cop and carry them for conveniences sake. I keep a pistol bedside because of convenience. If I get to the closet the pistol is a non-factor because Mr M4 is now doing the talking.

 

[ridgerunner]

All U pistol lovin' guys are missing the point(s). The OP has never had much if any training with a pistol (not that he can't get it). Without constant training with a pistol = missed target (wounded at best). Again, ONE pistol round from an untrained person using a pistol in the heat of the moment IF he hit his target is STILL A LAWSUIT. Everyone thinks one can't shoot more than once with a shotgun with birdshot or something. "oh that birdshot won't kill anybody, its for the birds" [censored]! Lots of people walk away from pistol rounds too ya know. I do agree, buckshot is the best but if given a choice of pistol or shotgun with birdshot especially for one who has never shot a pistol... come on guys give me a break! Keep that pistol in your pants for back up and pick up the shotgun or other long gun for the real work!

 

[Astro14]

Not pistol-lovin' per se...just want the OP to have a round that works...There are pros and cons to long guns and pistols. Both will require practice and both come with the responsibility to learn your state's laws on the application of lethal force and self-defense.

And you and I agree that a pistol requires practice...Autoloaders more than wheelguns...but you still need to practice with a shotgun. Frankly, anyone planning on using a gun should practice under stress - a course like Gunsite for example...

Since we're discussing clean slate (OP: I want a gun for home defense) - then it's not an issue of limited choice, or best round for what I already own, it's an issue of what's most effective. If the OP opts for a shotgun, then choose the gauge based on what they can handle/afford, and choose the round for that gauge based on effectiveness. So, if it's going to be a 12 or a 20, then put buckshot in it...not birdshot...you want to kill the SOB that you're shooting at.

As 'Busa pointed out on page 1 of this discussion, hitting the target is important. I don't see how birdshot is any advantage over buckshot in hitting the target, mass and recoil are about the same for a given gauge...

If you don't want to kill that SOB, then shooting is likely not justifiable...rack the slide, call 911, and yell at them to get the F out of your house or you'll shoot...they heard the sound...they know you've got a scattergun...they'll probably listen to your advice and leave. Problem averted, but if they're an immediate threat, rack the slide, front sight on center mass, squeeze the trigger and repeat until the threat is ended.

The better the round, the fewer shots until the threat is ended.

It's that simple.

 

[AlienBug]

These threads always tend to become amusing. The intruder in your house is going to be a druggie looking for a fix. I think some people think they need to be prepared for a battalion assault, by trained killers who will step over their dead and dying comrades in an effort to get up the stairs.

Bottom line- The bedside gun is for defense, not two-legged varmint hunting. Someone's in your house, hole up and call the cops. If he crosses the threshold of your safe room, all bets are off. Also, make sure you have a set of housekeys in your nightstand...to toss out the window to the cops when they arrive.

 

[calvin1]

If you're not mentally/emotionally prepared to destroy another human being then you're not ready to shoot in a defense situation. Thugs will read you like the top line at the eye doctor and you'll only end up hurt worse than if you had been unarmed. Shoot to wound is ^@$%&@!*.

 

[95busa]

1.) No telling who is coming into your home. Druggie, rapist, burgler, whatever. 2.) In most states the law states that deadly force may be used when a reasonable person would feel in danger of recieving great bodily harm and death. Other states take it a step further by saying that unlawful entry or attempts to gain entry are presumed to cause those fears in a reasonable person. If you enter my home uninvited during the hours of darkness, I will identify you using a tactical light. If I deem you a threat I will shoot you. I dont really care what you are looking for. You are not coming into my house illegally with my wife and three kids and expecting me to assume you are looking for something i don't have or stealing my property. I will kill that person,end of story. It is my responsibility to keep my family safe. This crazy thought people have that they will hang out in a "safe" room while someone pillages your house is astonishing. Rounds complete.

 

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted By: calvin1
If you're not mentally/emotionally prepared to destroy another human being then you're not ready to shoot in a defense situation. Thugs will read you like the top line at the eye doctor and you'll only end up hurt worse than if you had been unarmed. Shoot to wound is ^@$%&@!*.


Let me make this clear, I will shoot to kill whether I have a .22 cal., birdshot in a shotgun or a handfull of rocks. Come in my house with the intent to harm me and my family = suicide.