Student loans to hit 1 trillion this year.

[buster]

Why does college cost so much?

Bennett Hypothesis may be wrong. Decrease in state aid actually causes tuition to rise.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jHahr4X...p;q&f=false

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: buster
Why does college cost so much?

Bennett Hypothesis may be wrong. Decrease in state aid actually causes tuition to rise.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jHahr4X...p;q&f=false

Buster you don't need to read a book of gibberish to get the answer. Take a trip to any State University and look at the Tashmahalls erected without regards to cost in the last 10 years. Then take a look at the Teachers/staff/maintenance people's benefits and retirement packages (State Workers)...its a no-brainer.

 

[buster]

Al, with all due respect you're basically saying ignore data that may show what the price mechanism is and just go based on observation. You may be right, but that is not a very sound approach. Especially from an engineer.

 

[JHZR2]

You can't deny the niceities that have been coming to campuses.

Schools used to have no AC, now not only are the classrooms air conditioned, but the dorms are too. Electricity cost much?

People used to walk, now most campuses have elaborate bus systems. Fuel cost much?

What about the starbucks, taco bell, fancy buildings, etc.? What happened to the dining hall? My 21 meals a week in college was the best deal for my dining dollar. Yet people fritter away all kinds of money on this sort of stuff.

When a University puts in brick sidewalks or announces its $20M student center, should we be happy? At least if they were putting in a $20M lab, we would be gaining information from its use.

 

[buster]

Oh it's a business now, no doubt about it. It's out of control.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: buster
Al, with all due respect you're basically saying ignore data that may show what the price mechanism is and just go based on observation. You may be right, but that is not a very sound approach. Especially from an engineer.

Well Buster Engineering does teach you to be able to evaluate a situation and make a determination within say 10% accuracy.

Anyone that doesn't see why the costs are so high (within about 10% ) is rowing minus several oars.

 

[buster]

 

[JOD]

-if you're building a new building, it makes almost no sense to build it without some sort of cooled air, even in our mild climate. It's more efficient overall, by a significant margin. A building built with modern codes with the overwhelming number of heat-generated appliances (like computers and other office equipment) in most climates wouldn't be habitable. And university buildings, at least the ones of which I'm aware, pay more attention to efficiency that most. Here is a prime example in a retrofit. The building added air conditioning, and it's overall energy cost was reduced 25%. In short, you're really being ridiculous referring to AC as some sort of 'luxury item'...

-I see lots of kids walking to classes...

-capital improvements are paid for in a variety of ways, often with private donations. That's why the fancy sidewalk is often named something like "Gates Way" or whatever. The funding for capital improvements obviously depends on the individual project, but those "fancy building" are often paid for in significant part with private money. Plus, the life cycle for those buildings is significant--they aren't build to last 10 years, so yes, they cost money to build.

-if Startbucks is paying to put up a space, why is that a problem?

-as enrollments have grown, so has the need for student services. "should we be happy"? I don't know. You obviously aren't. I think that labs aren't the only important functions in a university.

The fact remains that the cost to educate a student at most state-funded universities hasn't increased much at all, and in some cases has declined. But the cost to students has increased, significantly; and this is for one overwhelming reason: a massive reduction in state funding, period. I realize it's easier to blame sidewalks and air conditioning than to actually look at facts, but it doesn't change them.

I also find it ironic that the two big deniers of state funded institutions are two beneficiaries of state-funded institutions. I gues it's the time-honored tradition of pulling up the ladder once you get to the top...

 

[rshaw125]

The students are just a conduit for vast amounts of money from the taxpayer. Colleges raise tuition because they know the students can easily borrow more. This enables the colleges to hold onto their bloated and antiquated model.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: buster
You may be right, but that is not a very sound approach. Especially from an engineer.

Just as an example..

1. Student cost at PSU doubled in 10years.
2. PSU Budget has gone up 65%
3. Student enrollment has gone up 18% in 8 years

See the connection?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: buster
You may be right, but that is not a very sound approach. Especially from an engineer.

Just as an example..

1. Student cost at PSU doubled in 10years.
2. PSU Budget has gone up 65%
3. Student enrollment has gone up 18% in 8 years

See the connection?


No, I don't--because you're giving very incomplete information.

The budget has gone up 65% since when? If the budget has increased 65% in 8 or 10 years, then I'd agree that their spending is completely out of control. I'd also suggest that this is incredibly unusual, if it's the case. Do you have a source for this information?

How has the University's cost per student increased since you went there? Not the tuition rates, but the actual expenditures per full-time student. I realize this isn't necessarily easy information to get, since PSU has long clung to secrecy with its "state related" status, but this is the information you really need to know to understand the increases in tuition. My guess is that adjusted for inflation, it's less now than when you attended.

Depending on when you went to PSU, your education was funded in large part by the state. The state no longer spends much to fund PSU, and that's what has caused tuition to increase-at least if PSU is similar to the overwhelming majority of state or state-related institutions.


I provided a real-world example earlier in this thread (from a university which makes all of its budget data public) of how tuition increased, dramatically, yet the cost per student actually stayed the same, or decreased over 30 years. Not adjusted for inflation, but in real dollars. I don't think that UW is atypical, either. The reason is simple, and quite clear: the state no longer funds much of the education.

Every lame reason in the world has been given in this thread for the increased cost of tuition; from scholarships to air conditioning... The data say otherwise, which is that expenditures per student haven't actually increased that much (if at all) at most state-funded or state-related institutions. What's changed is that the state is no longer funding these institutions they way they have in the past. I guess it's easier to blame sidewalks, and resort to "well, when I was in school..." than to look at actual facts.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Al

See the connection?


No, I don't--because you're giving very incomplete information.

The budget has gone up 65% since when?

8 years..same time period.


Quote:
If the budget has increased 65% in 8 or 10 years, then I'd agree that their spending is completely out of control.


Well at least we can agree there. But if you check out the campus, you will see the new opulence.



Quote:
I'd also suggest that this is incredibly unusual, if it's the case. Do you have a source for this information?


I pieced it together. I'm to lazy to re-look it back up. If y ou choose not to believe it. I understand.

Quote:
How has the University's cost per student increased since you went there? Not the tuition rates, but the actual expenditures per full-time student.

Since I graduated in '69..I have no clue. But again...looking at the opulence..I would say a lot of the cost is unnecessary.

Quote:
I realize this isn't necessarily easy information to get, since PSU has long clung to secrecy with its "state related" status,


Well I am sure its obtainable. But I have already complained to my State Senator and Congressman. And quite frankly they don't care. I could spend a career getting facts and figures together and the results would be the same.

Quote:
but this is the information you really need to know to understand the increases in tuition. My guess is that adjusted for inflation, it's less now than when you attended.

I paid around 1000/year...its now 15,000. Thats 1500% when inflation since then was 617%
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Calculator.asp
http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-n...-201112-808288/

Quote:
Depending on when you went to PSU, your education was funded in large part by the state.

I would ask you to prove this statement



Quote:
I provided a real-world example earlier in this thread (from a university which makes all of its budget data public) of how tuition increased, dramatically, yet the cost per student actually stayed the same, or decreased over 30 years.

Look at University of Pa, Albright College, Any number of colleges in the Pa. area and I remember approximately how much they were in 1969 (I went to Albright)

Their tuitions are up about 2000% at least. I think your case is an exception. Albright college tuition when I went there was $ 750/ year (a bit higher than average-1964). Today its $33,190
or over 4000%


Quote:
The data say otherwise, al facts.

We'll just have to disagree