Strange issue with '95 Integra LS - Stalling, etc.

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Thanks PandaBear,

I can take the cap off of my old distributor and put it on my newer one. I didn't see any cracks or issues, but it could be minute enough to cause an issue I suppose. I was also wondering if maybe the o-ring was bad, letting oil into the distributor? Not sure if that's even possible.

I drove the car for a few hours yesterday (and it was warmer than it has been, usually a death sentence for my car misfiring) and it didn't misfire/bog once. I was able to shut the car off, get in and back out and take off without a hiccup. I was able to put the pedal down and accelerate/downshift without it feeling like it was goin to stall. I think that's a good sign, but I'm still not 100% sure that it's fixed.

I was theorizing that because the gap was off on the plugs, that maybe when the car went into closed loop the distributor wasn't providing enough spark to bridge the wider gap at idle? That's just a thought, though, as I'm not sure exactly how the distributor/loops work.

If it keeps misfiring, I'll change the plug wires, clean the fuel injectors, and try tinkering with my distributor.

The compression tester involves removing the spark plugs, no? I should've done that when I switched them. I don't envy getting out the stuck plug again. My arms are still slightly sore from how hard I had to wrench that plug out!
lol.gif


Thanks for your help. I'll keep driving it and see if the misfire comes back and I'll report back on how it's doing. I do think yesterday was a very good sign, though.
 
Keep an eye on it. If it is a head gasket it will come back after a while and your plug in the same cylinders will be stuck and worn out more than the other cylinders'.

If you don't see oil or water in the distributor cap, your o ring and caps are likely ok. There's a vent hole in the distributor cap so you don't want to spray water to test it. It is there to vent the ozone when current arc through the rotor into the cap's terminal.

Your igntion system wouldn't have different voltage just because your engine is in open or close loop. The air fuel ratio will change and you may have different amount of idle air that change the air fuel and compression, that'll indirectly change the voltage.

Yes you have to take the plug out to test the compression, so you can wait till you have misfire problem, but if it works fine for, say, 10k miles, that'll means the rest of your system is likely ok. The question would be why your plugs are worn unevenly and why are your plugs worn in only 16k miles.

Just keep an eye on it for now, and check the coolant level and oil change frequently as a precaution (i.e. 3k on the cheapest dino for now).
 
BTW, the 2/4 plugs that aren't very worn out, keep them for reuse if you want or as a reference when you check your plugs after 16k again.
 
I drove the car all day yesterday on a long trip, and didn't have any misfiring or bogging. I did notice that when I put the car in reverse when it's warmed up that the idle seems precariously low (600rpms, maybe?)... but it didn't misfire or act like it would die, so maybe it's nothing to be concerned about. Driving in D4, it was perfect. I turned the car off and re-started it probably 5-7 times and it didn't misfire on any of the warm starts.

I was going to take a picture of the plugs, but someone moved them in the garage so I'm not sure which cylinder which plug came from anymore. I may still post a pic of them to try to capture the white tinge and the electrodes.

It was ~50 degrees yesterday, so I was honestly surprised it didn't act up. Usually if it's warm like that, it was guaranteed to misfire and chug.
 
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
Is it even possible for spark plugs to cause a problem like this, where it'll misfire at idle or under load when the car is warm or started after it's warmed up?


plugs can develop internal cracks in the insulator that allows arcing to happen.

it would be most pronounced when under load and lower rpms, as the higher fuel/air density has greater resistance, giving the spark greater "willingness" to find an alternate path.

I would also suspect that a weak igniter on honda vehicles can cause missed spark as well. It's a transistor that is ecu-controlled... basically replaces the points. it is prone to being damaged to once-harmless acts such as cranking the engine with plug wires removed.
 
Originally Posted By: meep
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
Is it even possible for spark plugs to cause a problem like this, where it'll misfire at idle or under load when the car is warm or started after it's warmed up?


plugs can develop internal cracks in the insulator that allows arcing to happen.

it would be most pronounced when under load and lower rpms, as the higher fuel/air density has greater resistance, giving the spark greater "willingness" to find an alternate path.

I would also suspect that a weak igniter on honda vehicles can cause missed spark as well. It's a transistor that is ecu-controlled... basically replaces the points. it is prone to being damaged to once-harmless acts such as cranking the engine with plug wires removed.


meep - Thanks for the insight. I was wondering about internal cracks but I didn't think there was really a way to check to see if that was the case. Would the (possible) internal cracks on a plug cause the car to run worse when the car is warm then, I take it?
 
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
meep - Thanks for the insight. I was wondering about internal cracks but I didn't think there was really a way to check to see if that was the case. Would the (possible) internal cracks on a plug cause the car to run worse when the car is warm then, I take it?


Unless you have a high voltage coil and a pressure chamber, you can't tell. The easiest way to diagnose is to just swap plugs all at once or one at a time. It is not economical for a mechanic to do it, but if you want to do it yourself it is probably worth it, but will not give you any more information than the plug is bad.

I do not believe statistically 2 plugs out of 4 could be bad due to some internal reason like dropped plugs or manufacturing defect. This is why it is important to keep track of which cylinders they are from, if they are adjacent or if they are away from each other. Then you can deduct whether it is head gasket (cylinder physically adjacent to each other) or distributor cap (if their terminals on the cap are adjacent to each other), and go from there.

Having old spare parts is a luxury that lets you swap things in and out for diagnostic reason.
 
I just wanted to post an update to this and say that my car is still running great after the new plugs. I haven't had a single misfire since. I'm running some Techron right now just for good measure, too. I think the real test will be when it starts getting really warm out, but it certainly runs better than before.
 
I have not gone back to re-read everything from the start but were all of your problem fixed after the new spark plugs? If so, what were people discussing for 5 pages then?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have not gone back to re-read everything from the start but were all of your problem fixed after the new spark plugs? If so, what were people discussing for 5 pages then?


It wasn't just the plugs, it was a combination of the O2 sensor and the plugs. I theorize that the O2 sensor messed up the plugs from running lean. I didn't think to check the plugs sooner because they only had maybe 15k on them. I wouldn't have thought to check the O2 sensor, either... so it worked out good that we found that out.
 
I went through all of your replies to find which spark plugs were in the vehicle. Surprisingly, the brand name of the existing spark plugs was not mentioned. You did say that the new ones are NGK. Which were the plugs that you replaced?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I went through all of your replies to find which spark plugs were in the vehicle. Surprisingly, the brand name of the existing spark plugs was not mentioned. You did say that the new ones are NGK. Which were the plugs that you replaced?


I've always used the same plugs in the car, NGK V-Powers.
 
Those are NOT long life plugs. 15K is on the shorter end of the scale but still not out of ordinary. I was assuming you had platinum plugs in there.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Those are NOT long life plugs. 15K is on the shorter end of the scale but still not out of ordinary. I was assuming you had platinum plugs in there.


My experience on the same car is that you can use it for longer than 30k, but performance / mpg suffer. 15k is way too short to wear out the plugs unless something else is wrong. Hence I ask him to keep monitoring the plugs. Only 2 out of 4 plugs are bad on this engine indicates it is not a "wear" but a damage / defects / problem that is only limited to 2 cylinders related parts.
 
Hey everyone,

Just thought I'd post an update on this since it isn't really "fixed" anymore. I took my car in to get the tires rotated, and as I was leaving the facility the car misfired on me a couple of times while waiting to merge into traffic. This was about 4-6 months ago. It didn't do it after that, so I was worried but not overly so. I took the car out for a longer drive over the weekend and while waiting in a drive-thru, it started misfiring quite a few times (about once every 5-10 seconds). After I got onto the road and started moving, it didn't do it again. Just while idling. Since I'm not the most mechanically inclined, I'm probably going to take it to a more reputable dealership that I recently discovered and see if they can take a second look at it and see if it really is the FITV and/or IACV, or if it's actually the distributor, or something else altogether. I'll report back when I can.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the gas mileage has been very poor in the past 6 months or so. I'm only averaging low 20s (20-24) when it used to be high 20s and low 30s, no matter how I drove it or what season it was.
 
Cam timing? I recall a coworker having a cam jump teeth, with similar problems. Might be worth a check.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Cam timing? I recall a coworker having a cam jump teeth, with similar problems. Might be worth a check.


Would that be something that would only manifest itself when the car is hot, though? When the car is cold, it doesn't misfire. It only seems to do it after the car is fully warmed up.
 
Dunno. It probably runs much richer when cold, with different spark timing too. Just saying, if everything else hasn't yielded a clue so far, perhaps checking the belt is in order. Especially if it's getting close to replacement time.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Dunno. It probably runs much richer when cold, with different spark timing too. Just saying, if everything else hasn't yielded a clue so far, perhaps checking the belt is in order. Especially if it's getting close to replacement time.


I believe it's going to be due in about 5,000 miles or so.
 
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