Sorry Ferrari.. Swedish Koenigsegg whips 458

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You only get weak power from multifuel E85 'capable' engines because most of the time it is gasoline engine that can make enough adjustments to burn E85. They are not optimized for the stuff. You can get great power off E85 if you design from the first step with the intention of burning it.
 
The Agera R costs many, many times more than the Ferrari 458. I don't see why the performance difference is remarkable.
 
Ahem.

Per unit of measurement (volume) alcohol is significantly LOWER in energy. You must use a LOT more alky to get the same hp as gasoline.

If your car can meter enough of it, you can severely advance the timing and thus pick up tons of power. Especially wonderful with boost.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ahem.

Per unit of measurement (volume) alcohol is significantly LOWER in energy. You must use a LOT more alky to get the same hp as gasoline.



Isn't that what I said?
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I don't get it. The new Koenigsegg, with roughly twice the power, will out accelerate a 458?

So what? A used Mitsubishi Evo with some bolt on parts will do that. A Corvette built by some good 'ol boys in Ken-tuck-ey will do that. A V6 Datsun will give it a good run too.

Are any of them better cars that the Italia? No, Koenigsegg included.

A turbocharged supercar? No soul, just power. No soul... no soul.
 
I think the reviews disagree with you on the part about soul.
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Also, while I agree with your preference for natural aspiration, I don't think turbocharging is sufficient to rob a car of soul. There is no shortage of very soulful turbocharged cars.
 
Well considering the 458 costs about 1/3 what do you expect?

Both great cars, personally in the US I would take the 458 since you can get parts and service for it. Plus F cars are pretty durable, you can beat on them pretty hard and they don't break.

IMHO for Koenigsegg money I'd buy a Zonda, its a better car.



Zonda is where its at. Mercedes AMG M120 V12 tuned to perfection.
 
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Also, while I agree with your preference for natural aspiration, I don't think turbocharging is sufficient to rob a car of soul. There is no shortage of very soulful turbocharged cars.


Sure, there are plenty of soulful turbocharged cars, but they're all built to a budget and not really supercars. Even the turbo Porsche 911 isn't a supercar. To that: When Porsche did make a supercar, the Carrera GT, it wasn't turbocharged.

Ferrari F40. That's all I got for a soulful turbocharged supercar. Maybe a Porsche 959, but I'm almost going to say that's kinda of like the GTR is now: Just too much technology to have soul.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Quote:
Also, while I agree with your preference for natural aspiration, I don't think turbocharging is sufficient to rob a car of soul. There is no shortage of very soulful turbocharged cars.


Sure, there are plenty of soulful turbocharged cars, but they're all built to a budget and not really supercars. Even the turbo Porsche 911 isn't a supercar. To that: When Porsche did make a supercar, the Carrera GT, it wasn't turbocharged.

Ferrari F40. That's all I got for a soulful turbocharged supercar. Maybe a Porsche 959, but I'm almost going to say that's kinda of like the GTR is now: Just too much technology to have soul.


Porsche 911 GT2 RS? Jaguar XJ220? Noble M600? Pagani Huayra?

Again, I completely agree with you that NA is vastly preferable, and that turbos are almost nonexistent among the truly great supercars. I just think you're a bit too quick to judge the Koenigsegg on the basis of just one attribute, especially when the reviews are so favorable.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Porsche 911 GT2 RS? Jaguar XJ220? Noble M600? Pagani Huayra?


Like I said, turbo Porsche don't fit my criteria of a supercar. Heck, they run commercials about how practical they are! That's about as un-supercar as Kenny G is un-rock and roll.

XJ200? You got me there. I missed that.

Nobel is a crate away from being a kit car. For a modern supercar, there is too much missing compared to the competitors.

The Pagani... I will say that the Zonda has a much soul as any car out there. The Huayra is just another "me too" car trying to follow up the Veyron.

I think the Veyron really may be one of the keys here. So many of the hypercar manufacturers (Pagani, Koenigsegg, Hennessy, etc.) saw what Bugatti did, putting out 1000+ HP, rolling 250 MPH, and getting a TON of press about it, that they're trying to emulate that. In the process, they created a series of vastly overpowered cars that are technological and engineering masterpieces, but lack a certain old world soul.

I'll give an example outside the auto world: Tag Heuer recently introduced a concept watch, the Mikrotimer Flying 1000. It is the worlds fastest mechanical chronograph. It operates at 3.6 million beats per hour. That's 125 times faster than anything else. It'll cost you a hair over $100,000.

All that and it will never have the soul of a Patek Phillipe. Patek watches don't have any crazy technology and they can't claim any records. It does have artisan levels of old world craftsmanship and a certain link to the past that really makes owning one something special; it's not just a technological marvel. It has soul.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
I think the Veyron really may be one of the keys here. So many of the hypercar manufacturers (Pagani, Koenigsegg, Hennessy, etc.) saw what Bugatti did, putting out 1000+ HP, rolling 250 MPH, and getting a TON of press about it, that they're trying to emulate that. In the process, they created a series of vastly overpowered cars that are technological and engineering masterpieces, but lack a certain old world soul.


The Veyron started that trend of soul-less machines. Compare the Veyron to the McLaren F1 of a decade prior to see the difference between a meat and potatoes "fastest car" to one designed in a board room and engineered to death. And this is coming from an Engineer. Come to think of it, I don't think there's a product VAG makes that has any soul. Everything they produce looks and feels like a bunch of suit-and-ties dreamed it up in a 4 hour boardroom meeting.


I wonder if anyone else noticed what I did in the video. I don't think it would have made a difference in the outcome, but did it sound to anyone else like the Ferrari was short shifting quite a bit?
 
Fair enough, but I still have no idea how any of this leads to the conclusion that the Agera R being turbocharged means it is soulless.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Fair enough, but I still have no idea how any of this leads to the conclusion that the Agera R being turbocharged means it is soulless.


I got pretty far off track. I suppose my issue was a separate one that I thought of after reading MrHorspwer and your posts.

I agree, not sure I see why turbocharging a car makes it soulless. It is harder to get a nice, screaming exhaust note that we associate with the popular NA supercars.
 
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