Some concerns with the valve cover return

[Razl]

I weighted the pros and cons with return options (specifically, valve cover and oil pan) and have decided to return my bypass to the oil filler cap in my 2004 Honda CR-V (4cyl, 2.4l)

I do, however, still fear that I may be causing more harm than good, which defeats the purpose of adding a bypass! Here goes:

1) How do I know if I am too close to the PCV valve? Would I just need to monitor oil usage as an indicator?

2) How do I know if my engine can handle the additional flow of oil (roughly 1 quart per minute) from the valve cover to the oil pan?

 

[sifan]

I return the oil thru oil cap on my 2003 Toyota Echo ,and have driven for 700+ miles without any problem. The oil cap and PCV locates at two opposite ends of Echo engine.

 

[deepsquat]

Why not make life simple and use a sandwich adapter ?

 

[Razl]

quote:

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Why not make life simple and use a sandwich adapter ?

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I wish it were simple. I have a permacooler sandwich but lack the oil pressure gauge to ensure there is adequate flow to the full-flow oil filter. Apparently, I need to drill a hole in the adapter to the proper size.

Too many posts suggest that the built in relief valve may be too small, causing a pressure drop. At least that's what I concluded from previous posts.

 

[RalphPWood]

The bypass valve is large enough for any small engine. It might not be large enough for a large engine that needs more flow to feed worn bearings. The safe thing is to drill the adapter 7/32" to help the relief valve. In the Bahamas at a tourist resort there is a row of diesel engine generators. They have Motor Guard M-30s with Perma-Cool 181 sandwich adapters. They are watched very closely. It was noticed that one had a little less oil pressure than it did before the Motor Guard installation.They drilled the adapter with a 1/8" drill. That brought the pressure up. They tried 1/4" and that reduced the resistance too much to feed the Motor Guard the other engines didn't need drilling. On some engines such as GM and Dodge Cummins you never know because they have a stock back up relief valve that will open. I drill the Perma-Cool universal 189 for the Dodge Cummins. The sandwich adapters increase the the filtering ability so I like to use them whenever possible. They allow the oil to soak thru the element at it's own rate instead of being forced thru. Another more expensive way to increase filtering ability is to add multiple Motor Guards in parallel. Some say that the TP filters are so good that you can't make them filter better. Yes, you can if you know what you are doing.
I'm not big on relocating the full flow filter. I like to leave it where it is. I will use the dual remote system for ATF where the customer wants no resistance for the ATF going to the cooler. For ATF you can use the Perma-Cool ATF filter. If you then want to get down to the submicronic level you can screw on a Perma-Cool 181 adapter, run a couple of hoses to the submicronic bypass filter. The Motor Guard will filter either direction but you need to make sure the fluid is flowing thru the Perma-Cool mount in the right direction. I sometimes change mine just to see how good the transmission is. I never bother with changing the junk filter in the pan.
Motor Guard converted over to industrial filters almost 30 years ago but there are still people looking for them. The M-30 is just a fancy M-100, slightly modified for lube oil. In some ways the M-30 is even better than the M-100

Ralph

 

[deepsquat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Razl:

quote:

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Why not make life simple and use a sandwich adapter ?

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I wish it were simple. I have a permacooler sandwich but lack the oil pressure gauge to ensure there is adequate flow to the full-flow oil filter. Apparently, I need to drill a hole in the adapter to the proper size.

Too many posts suggest that the built in relief valve may be too small, causing a pressure drop. At least that's what I concluded from previous posts.

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I don't really think it is an issue, as you can run a bypass filter without the full flow..heck I haven't changed my full flow in 24000 miles...don't need ...I really feel the full flow filter dosen;t do a dang think anyway ...I mean most of them are just pleatted cardboard.

 

[Razl]

quote:

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It was noticed that one had a little less oil pressure than it did before the Motor Guard installation.They drilled the adapter with a 1/8" drill.

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Ralph. Thanks for the info. You are always very helpful. I do however, need some an education on how oil pressure work in relation to flow/volume. If the ball relief is too small for adequately flow, wouldn't this cause pressure build up on the block-side of the permacooler? Drilling out a hole would make me think the pressure would drop due to the increased flow capacity (less backup).

I know you said the relief orifice is adequate for most small engines, but my pessimistic nature wants me to prove it. Specifically, do I use a pressure gauge to determine proper drill-out size?

 

[Razl]

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I don't really think it is an issue, as you can run a bypass filter without the full flow.

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I can't argue that the full flow's job may be obsolete with the "new" bypass guy, but my concern is with adequate flow. Even with a clogged full flow filter in bypass, there will be increased wear if the oil flow (volume) is less than the engine needs.

 

[oldman]

Razl, I had many of the same questions you have when I was looking for info to install a bypass on my Tundra. Since it is still under warranty I did not want to do anything that would require drilling into any part of the engine. Ralph Wood answered my questions and suggested the use of the perma-cool sandwich adapter. I checked out all of the types of bypass units available and went with the MotorGuard because it was said to be the easiest to work with and the filter replacement was the least expensive. I went with the person who answered all of my questions and I am more than happy with my choice.

 

[Steve S]

It is foolish advice to remove the full flow filter. The full flow filter stops the most damaging particles . Full flow filters are responsible for a major increase in engine life when introduced. If given a choice, the full flow is a must! the bypass is an extra. I am not debating whether they work ,as from my experience they keep the oil cleaner. Just do not remove the full flow . I had a bypass for around 4 years on a 1988 camry 4 cyl. with the return in the fill cap using an amsoil adapter . The same on my 92 v6 toy pickup .You will have to figure out if it will work on your car.

 

[RalphPWood]

The only way the oil can get to the engine from the oil pump is thru the full flow. Think of the Perma-Cool adapter as a wall in between the oil pump and full flow filter with a spring loaded door in it. The small amount of oil that can go around the wall thru the Motor Guard isnt enough to supply the engine. The spring loaded door opens. If the spring loaded door isnt large enough you add a window to the wall. If you make the window too large all of the oil will go through the window and none will go thru the door or the Motor Guard.
The proof of the system is the oil pressure of the dash gauge. It gets its reading from the actual pressure on the engine parts. If you have no gauge you can hook up one to the outlet of the sandwich adapter to get the actual reading of the pressure on the engine parts. You can use a 3/8" or 1/4" tee. For the 6 cylinder diesel generator in the Bahamas a 1/8" window was good enough and a 1/4" window was too big. There was no pressure to the Motor Guard. They could tell because the oil was hot and the Motor Guard wasnt. For people that like to return the oil to the valve cover or oil pan they can drill a big window or more in the adapter and plug one port. From the other port they can run a line to the Motor Guard. The Frantz one port sandwich adapter has only one port and a bunch of windows. The sandwich adapter eliminates the possibility of getting a false reading from teeing off at the oil pressure sending unit. You are taking pressure directly off the main oil supply. The picture of the Cummins on my web site has a 7/32" orifice in the Perma-Cool universal adapter. I had the center piece made at a machine shop. I set it up to use the same thread size as a Toyota or most Fords. The trucks have a clearance problem and needs a shorter filter. The Cummins 12 valve has a backup relief valve in the engine that will open at about 20 psi and bypass both filters if there is a restriction. Most GM engines will do the same at a lower pressure. It is safer to use both the bypass filter and the full flow filter especially for racing or any over working of the engine. My Camry doesnt work hard and doesnt generate anything large enough for the full flow filter to remove. As a rule of thumb if it is large enough to see the full flow filter can take it out. One problem we had with racing was the large abrasives accumulating in the bottom of the stock filter then flushing into the bearings when the bottom located relief valve opened.

Ralph

 

[Ugly3]

I just don't understand!

If you use any of several highly rated oil filters (Pure One and Mobil 1 are #1 and #2)and a decent dino or synthetic motor oil with reasonable change intervals the engine will last longer than the rest of the car.

Why go through all this "rig-a-ma-roll" with bypass filters? What does it get you?

I personally use full synthetic oil and Pure One filters with a 10,000 mile change. All is well at 150,000 miles.

 

[deepsquat]

This is why go through all the "rig-a-ama-roll"
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001757

my oil analysis after 24000 miles...my oil is always clean ..never gets dirty , doesn't need to be changed at 3000 miles , because at 3000 miles it is in better shap then your oil at 2000 miles ..even if you do like top change it at 10000 miles..just means that yours is dirtier then mine for a longer time.