Patman
Staff member
I find cars with 0-60 in 8 seconds to be too slow, I prefer mine under 6. Since my Firebird runs the quarter mile in 13.8 seconds, it's 0-60 time is probably somewhere around 5 to 5.5 seconds.
Smallest Oil Pan? (Mine = 2.4 quarts)
- Thread starter troy_heagy
- Start date
- Status
I feel like I'm being baited into an argument. Sorry, but I refuse to bite.
I bought an Insight. I like the Insight. I don't think it's "sluggish" for my daily commute. And I don't feel that I have to justify my purchase to you or anyone else.
So, nice attempt to start an argument, but I'm not biting your bait. No troll-feeding today.
Seeya!
I bought an Insight. I like the Insight. I don't think it's "sluggish" for my daily commute. And I don't feel that I have to justify my purchase to you or anyone else.
So, nice attempt to start an argument, but I'm not biting your bait. No troll-feeding today.
Seeya!
Patman
Staff member
Nope, not trying to bait you at all Troy, I simply am a leadfoot that's all.
I've got a hand in both cookie jars, personally. For 6+ years, my daily commuter was a 94 Mustang GT. When my wife and I moved in together, she had a short commute while I had a long, so for economic reasons, I traded with her and have been driving her 95 Hyundai Accent ever since. We recently got a new daily driver for her (03 Accord) and the Mustang is now a weekend driver.
The Mustang does the 1/4 mi in about 15 sec (I'd like to think a few ticks under, since it's mildly modified); the Honda in 16.4 sec (MotorTrend); the Accent in 18.2 (Car-stats.com).
In most situations, the Accent is adequate. It downshifts a bit too often on any uphill grade, and passing performance is spotty at highway speeds, but it gets me to and from work without incident. And I get 33+ MPG.
Honda has tuned the 03 Accord i-4 pretty well. The 5-speed automatic has nice gear ratios that make it feel almost as fast as the Mustang (at least in the 15-60 mph range), though it's not. The Accord is very fun to drive. It's a little sluggish from a standstill, and once you get over 60mph, passing speeds hit the wall.
The Mustang is an all-out blast to drive. It just eats gas too much for my budget and is getting along in years, so I save it for fun little trips around town, and an occasional relief from the Accent. It's also my emergency backup in case the Accent goes down for any reason.
So, though I prefer the speed of the Accord or Mustang, I get by fine with the Accent going to and from work.
Edit: getting somewhat back on topic, the Accord matches the Accent in highway mileage (33mpg), despite having 70 more horsepower (90 vs. 160).
[ May 31, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: timzak ]
The Mustang does the 1/4 mi in about 15 sec (I'd like to think a few ticks under, since it's mildly modified); the Honda in 16.4 sec (MotorTrend); the Accent in 18.2 (Car-stats.com).
In most situations, the Accent is adequate. It downshifts a bit too often on any uphill grade, and passing performance is spotty at highway speeds, but it gets me to and from work without incident. And I get 33+ MPG.
Honda has tuned the 03 Accord i-4 pretty well. The 5-speed automatic has nice gear ratios that make it feel almost as fast as the Mustang (at least in the 15-60 mph range), though it's not. The Accord is very fun to drive. It's a little sluggish from a standstill, and once you get over 60mph, passing speeds hit the wall.
The Mustang is an all-out blast to drive. It just eats gas too much for my budget and is getting along in years, so I save it for fun little trips around town, and an occasional relief from the Accent. It's also my emergency backup in case the Accent goes down for any reason.
So, though I prefer the speed of the Accord or Mustang, I get by fine with the Accent going to and from work.
Edit: getting somewhat back on topic, the Accord matches the Accent in highway mileage (33mpg), despite having 70 more horsepower (90 vs. 160).
[ May 31, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: timzak ]
Troy, I think its great that you bought a highbred vehicle. You getting better gas mileage and using less resources then most vehicles on the road. Plus I get to hear about any problems you might encounter that would make me not want to buy one.
Like you said when did driving to work become a race? If your happy with the vehicle then thats all that really matters.
I drive an old subaru wagon that does the quarter mile in about two weeks but driving around town I never feel like I'm holding back traffic. Now on the feeway its a different story but thats what the slow lane is for, right?
Like you said when did driving to work become a race? If your happy with the vehicle then thats all that really matters.
I drive an old subaru wagon that does the quarter mile in about two weeks but driving around town I never feel like I'm holding back traffic. Now on the feeway its a different story but thats what the slow lane is for, right?
Wow. You're an impatient guy.
Perhaps, but it's my $20k to spend.
I consider your decision that 8 seconds is good and 13 is bad to be very, very arbitrary.
Of course it is. I consider your acceptance of 10 seconds as very good to be equally arbitrary. That's the nature of personal choice.
When you were driving the 108hp Civic why did it feel that it was sluggish to you?
It felt like it couldn't get out of its own way. It took forever to get up to cruising speeds and once there had no guts to pass anything. See coal-truck test previously. And that was with a manual! God help the person with an automatic.
Honestly, I don't see why it's necessary to have racetrack-style acceleration (Neon).
Bwa-hahahahahaha
The Neon was one of the slowest cars I ever owned. It was "acceptable". Not "good".
When I merge onto the highway, I rarely floor it
See, I always floor it, because I need to be going at least 70 mph and preferably closer to 80 in what, less than 1/8th of a mile? Are you one of those people who merges onto an interstate at 50 mph and just hopes everyone else gets out of your way in time?
But that's really beside the point. I don't know why you feel like you're being baited, or attacked. All I was trying to do was determine what your baseline for "acceptable" is, so that when you say something is acceptable I'd know whether I would agree -- and evidently, I wouldn't. My idea of acceptable is quite a bit faster than yours.
Now, see, this saves us from arguing endlessly about whether an Insight is fast because you know I'm a leadfoot and I know you're pokey. Our opinions of fast are quite different and arguing about opinions like that is pointless. You will no more convince me to slow down than I will convince you to speed up.
It would now be possible for us to go back to the discussion at hand -- what it'd take to make a hybrid that appeals to the masses, and make money on it -- with the knowledge that you like slow cars and I don't, opinions which color the way we view the current hybrid market.
Determining our basic assumptions is not an attack on those assumptions; it facilitates understanding the perspectives behind the larger discussion.
Cheers, 3MP
PS. I agree with the linked article in part and I disagree in part. I do think many cars are overpowered; like I said earlier, 150-160 hp and ~3000 lbs seems to work very well in a "normal" car. But unlike this turkey, I'm not going to demand that my government force certain cars off the road just because IMO they're silly. What a dumb thing to legislate.
Perhaps, but it's my $20k to spend.
I consider your decision that 8 seconds is good and 13 is bad to be very, very arbitrary.
Of course it is. I consider your acceptance of 10 seconds as very good to be equally arbitrary. That's the nature of personal choice.
When you were driving the 108hp Civic why did it feel that it was sluggish to you?
It felt like it couldn't get out of its own way. It took forever to get up to cruising speeds and once there had no guts to pass anything. See coal-truck test previously. And that was with a manual! God help the person with an automatic.
Honestly, I don't see why it's necessary to have racetrack-style acceleration (Neon).
Bwa-hahahahahaha
The Neon was one of the slowest cars I ever owned. It was "acceptable". Not "good".
When I merge onto the highway, I rarely floor it
See, I always floor it, because I need to be going at least 70 mph and preferably closer to 80 in what, less than 1/8th of a mile? Are you one of those people who merges onto an interstate at 50 mph and just hopes everyone else gets out of your way in time?
But that's really beside the point. I don't know why you feel like you're being baited, or attacked. All I was trying to do was determine what your baseline for "acceptable" is, so that when you say something is acceptable I'd know whether I would agree -- and evidently, I wouldn't. My idea of acceptable is quite a bit faster than yours.
Now, see, this saves us from arguing endlessly about whether an Insight is fast because you know I'm a leadfoot and I know you're pokey. Our opinions of fast are quite different and arguing about opinions like that is pointless. You will no more convince me to slow down than I will convince you to speed up.
It would now be possible for us to go back to the discussion at hand -- what it'd take to make a hybrid that appeals to the masses, and make money on it -- with the knowledge that you like slow cars and I don't, opinions which color the way we view the current hybrid market.
Determining our basic assumptions is not an attack on those assumptions; it facilitates understanding the perspectives behind the larger discussion.
Cheers, 3MP
PS. I agree with the linked article in part and I disagree in part. I do think many cars are overpowered; like I said earlier, 150-160 hp and ~3000 lbs seems to work very well in a "normal" car. But unlike this turkey, I'm not going to demand that my government force certain cars off the road just because IMO they're silly. What a dumb thing to legislate.
Did someone mention Neons?
I don't delude myself that they're fast, but for an out-of-the-box economy car, the DOHC 5-speeds are pretty healthy, & fun to drive. No, they don't have that good old V-8 torque or feel.
3MP: Just curious: what powertrain did your Neon have? I susect your cars would be tough comparison for any NA 4-cyl.
Oil Capacity: My 2.0 L Neon has an oil capacity of 4.5 qts with standard filter, 4.75 qts w/oversize oil filter. My old Volvo 122 S held 4 qts, including filter. Mom's 94 Mercury Grand Marquis 4.6 V-8 reads full w/ 5 qts, incl filter. Reminds me- the Merc has ~800 miles now on fresh oil change w/Auto-Rx, gotta get that filter changed this week!
I don't delude myself that they're fast, but for an out-of-the-box economy car, the DOHC 5-speeds are pretty healthy, & fun to drive. No, they don't have that good old V-8 torque or feel.
3MP: Just curious: what powertrain did your Neon have? I susect your cars would be tough comparison for any NA 4-cyl.
Oil Capacity: My 2.0 L Neon has an oil capacity of 4.5 qts with standard filter, 4.75 qts w/oversize oil filter. My old Volvo 122 S held 4 qts, including filter. Mom's 94 Mercury Grand Marquis 4.6 V-8 reads full w/ 5 qts, incl filter. Reminds me- the Merc has ~800 miles now on fresh oil change w/Auto-Rx, gotta get that filter changed this week!
3MP: Just curious: what powertrain did your Neon have? I susect your cars would be tough comparison for any NA 4-cyl.
It was a '01 model with the 135-hp four and a 5-speed. It did okay, handled better than it deserved, didn't seem to like cruising at 80 very much though. By comparison my 165-hp 5-spd Impreza cruises just fine at 80, with plenty of reserve power. Fuel economy isn't as good though, hauling around that full-time AWD and shorter gearing.
There was a time when I was younger, I kept a fleet of older cars instead of just a couple of newer ones... my average per-car cylinder count was 8.3.
But not all my performance cars have relied on big cubes and lots of cylinders. I loved that Miata. Sigh.
30 mpg was quite a shock after driving high-teens mpg cars for years. I think this hybrid stuff is great & in a few more years they'll probably have a hybrid fast enough for a leadfoot like me. Probably not fast enough to pry my convertible Z28 out of my hands but, you know, maybe the Impreza.
Cheers, 3MP
It was a '01 model with the 135-hp four and a 5-speed. It did okay, handled better than it deserved, didn't seem to like cruising at 80 very much though. By comparison my 165-hp 5-spd Impreza cruises just fine at 80, with plenty of reserve power. Fuel economy isn't as good though, hauling around that full-time AWD and shorter gearing.
There was a time when I was younger, I kept a fleet of older cars instead of just a couple of newer ones... my average per-car cylinder count was 8.3.
30 mpg was quite a shock after driving high-teens mpg cars for years. I think this hybrid stuff is great & in a few more years they'll probably have a hybrid fast enough for a leadfoot like me. Probably not fast enough to pry my convertible Z28 out of my hands but, you know, maybe the Impreza.
Cheers, 3MP
- Status