Shop Compressor Possibly Fried LEDs in House. Related? Is this wired correctly?

[alarmguy]

Just so we dont muddy the water *L* (I am not discussing your defective LED in your kitchen)

If you read my previous posts regarding your compressor in your shop, I am sure your issue with flickering LEDs will be fixed with better quality LED lights, most likely dimmable would be best.
LEDs are sensitive to voltage fluctuations and your 5 HP motor will certainly create that in your shop possibly your house too, a 100Amp panel with the draw of a 5 HP motor starting up will certainly cause fluctuations I would think, even if it was on a separate line.

 

[mk378]

Dimmable LEDs are intentionally sensitive to voltage fluctuations. A good non-dimmable unit would be best if you won't use a dimmer.

A big reciprocating air compressor has a natural pulsating energy demand that takes a very stout electrical system to absorb.

And yes that wiring job is incredibly shoddy and dangerous.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

I'm not an Electrician, but that's what I noticed right away.
Also, blow the dirt out of the Box and install a Cover if you don't have one.

Once you get this all figured out, I would also look into some type of Surge Protection.
Point-of-Use for your sensitive electronics and a Whole House Protector.
Most people don't run 5 H.P. motors at home.

 

[OilMagnate]

Just so we dont muddy the water *L* (I am not discussing your defective LED in your kitchen)

If you read my previous posts regarding your compressor in your shop, I am sure your issue with flickering LEDs will be fixed with better quality LED lights, most likely dimmable would be best.
LEDs are sensitive to voltage fluctuations and your 5 HP motor will certainly create that in your shop possibly your house too, a 100Amp panel with the draw of a 5 HP motor starting up will certainly cause fluctuations I would think, even if it was on a separate line.

Definitely have no clue why you keep typing *L*...what does this mean?

The lights in the shop are affected, yes. But no more than any other circuit in the shop or the house it seems. In the house I have several combinations of LEDs. Dimmable, non-dimmable. The only dimmer switch is the kitchen, because that's the only circuit that's been redone (remodeled). It affects every light in the house, and presumably every electronic device that isn't a light.

The shop LED tubes are brand new and here to stay. If changing out both the shop and pole breaker boxes, properly grounding everything, along with keeping the compressor isolated on it's own circuit doesn't fix it, then I'll have to live with it unless there's a loose connection, undersized wiring, or some other technical isolated problem somewhere as stated previously. I do understand the compressor is a high-draw component. Just like my A/C condenser, it should dim the lights a slight bit during the initial hit, but it lasts less than half a second then returns to normal. I also understand "normal" for this size compressor may still give voltage fluctuations, but it seems excessive as-is. I've been taking notes of everyone's comments and will address each with my electrician.

 

[OilMagnate]

Dimmable LEDs are intentionally sensitive to voltage fluctuations. A good non-dimmable unit would be best if you won't use a dimmer.

A big reciprocating air compressor has a natural pulsating energy demand that takes a very stout electrical system to absorb.

And yes that wiring job is incredibly shoddy and dangerous.

I'm getting confused on which is sensitive and which is better. Different opinions in this thread... Regardless of which is correct, 95% of my house lights are A19 LEDs, and 95% of those are dimmable, even though all except my (recessed, non-A19) kitchen lights aren't on a dimmer switch. They will all stay until they burn out. Once those do, I have tons of A19 non-dimmable to use.

The shop lighting is 100% LED. 40x 4ft direct-wired single-end non-dimmable LED tubes, and 2x non-dimmable A19 LEDs in the shop bathroom. Again, all there to stay. Ultimately, I don't mind a little lighting pulse, I just don't want anything else frying (think TVs, appliances, etc.).

 

[ripcord]

In addition to house wiring problems, your motor may have some serious problems as well. An amp clamp would tell the tale. It could very well be drawing well in excess of the rated current on the badge due to some type of fault.

Does the load on the motor affect the behavior? Does it get worse as the pressure in the tank builds? What if you take the belt off?

 

[OilMagnate]

I'm not an Electrician, but that's what I noticed right away.
Also, blow the dirt out of the Box and install a Cover if you don't have one.

Once you get this all figured out, I would also look into some type of Surge Protection.
Point-of-Use for your sensitive electronics and a Whole House Protector.
Most people don't run 5 H.P. motors at home.
View attachment 36375

I agree with the points circled, as many have stated. Those definitely need addressed. Once it's operable again, I'll blow out the starter box. It does have a cover, I just removed it to take a picture. In my OP, the image that shows the entire compressor actually shows the cover laying on top of the electric motor.

 

[OilMagnate]

In addition to house wiring problems, your motor may have some serious problems as well. An amp clamp would tell the tale. It could very well be drawing well in excess of the rated current on the badge due to some type of fault.

Does the load on the motor affect the behavior? Does it get worse as the pressure in the tank builds? What if you take the belt off?

Very useful information. Thanks!

Out of curiosity, what is the rated current on the badge? They're all just numbers to me. The only thing I can decipher is the 208-230 which is the voltage.

Load on the motor doesn't seem to have any effect, positive or negative. If it's running, the lights are pulsing. No more or less under different conditions. At least that's what my eyes tell me. FWIW, there really aren't any other conditions other than just 'running' as the compressor seems to be pretty consistent on how it runs. It doesn't bog down at higher pressures.

I am a little suspicious of the motor due to it's age. I'll be looking into this for sure. Thanks for the tip on the belt trick, I wouldn't have thought of that for some reason.

 

[RedSpider]

This is located physically on the tank:View attachment 36271

Wow I live about two minutes away from where this was built. I think where the Melben facility was is Campbell Hausfield now.

 

[Skippy722]

I am a little suspicious of the motor due to it's age. I'll be looking into this for sure. Thanks for the tip on the belt trick, I wouldn't have thought of that for some reason.

I did manage to find what I think is that motor for sale should you happen to need one... not cheap!

https://www.grainger.com/mobile/product/DAYTON-General-Purpose-Motor-5K676

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Out of curiosity, what is the rated current on the badge? They're all just numbers to me. The only thing I can decipher is the 208-230 which is the voltage.

22 amps full so that spike could be close to about 28-30 at start up.

So to do it right this needs its own dedicated circuit all the way to the main with at least #10 conductor and fully grounded/bonded

 

[ripcord]

According to the badge it will be 25 amps at 230 volts. If you have 240 volts nominal, which is what you should have, it will be a bit lower.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

According to the badge it will be 25 amps at 230 volts. If you have 240 volts nominal, which is what you should have, it will be a bit lower.

That's what's there alright, I took mine on the replacement motor currently available

 

[ripcord]

And just because that's what it says on the badge doesn't mean that's what it's actually drawing.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Very true

 

[OilMagnate]

22 amps full so that spike could be close to about 28-30 at start up.

So to do it right this needs its own dedicated circuit all the way to the main with at least #10 conductor and fully grounded/bonded

View attachment 36383

According to the badge it will be 25 amps at 230 volts. If you have 240 volts nominal, which is what you should have, it will be a bit lower.

So I guess if I'm reading this correctly, it is 26A@208V and 25A@230V. I'm also assuming at 240V, the amp draw would be slightly less than 25. Perhaps around 24-24.5. Cool. Now I think I know how to read it. But now back to the original question, is the existing dedicated 30A breaker with new 10-gauge wire truly enough to handle this load? I'm assuming the answer is yes, considering a licensed electrician wired it up. Although that was before the compressor was in here, so he had no way of anticipating what would actually be installed...

Would there be any benefit in stepping down to 8-gauge wire and/or bumping the breaker up to 40A? I know going down in gauge usually never hurts except to the wallet (as long as it fits into the breakers). But I don't know the rules when it comes to breaker limits. I know you can never just bump up the breaker without any other changes, as the breaker is designed to be the weak point in order to protect the wire. I just don't know how it works when also beefing up the wire.

Now I'm especially curious what the motor is REALLY pulling.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

But now back to the original question, is the existing dedicated 30A breaker with new 10-gauge wire truly enough to handle this load? I'm assuming the answer is yes, considering a licensed electrician wired it up. Although that was before the compressor was in here, so he had no way of anticipating what would actually be installed...

Its correct to handle the COMPRESSOR load so there can be nothing else on the circuit. ( all the way back to the load center/Main)

Would there be any benefit in stepping down to 8-gauge wire and/or bumping the breaker up to 40A?

Yes (Personally I normally upsize where reasonable)- it will generate less heat and somewhat less resistance over the run. There is no short term benefit and there wont be anything noticeable except in longevity of the components. That said, a breaker is a circuit interrupter- not a fuse so if something faults but not a complete short, that extra breaker can let it marinate until possible combustion. (rare and unlikely but have to state there's a risk upsizing breakers that doesn't apply to a conductor)

Just don't use the breaker as a switch- they lose some latch ability every time they throw.

 

[ripcord]

I am not an expert, but based on everything in this thread, it sure seems likely that there is a problem with the motor. Bad bearings causing the rotor to wobble inside the stator causing spikes in the current draw, combined with marginal wiring? Broken rotor sections possibly, too.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I am not an expert, but based on everything in this thread, it sure seems likely that there is a problem with the motor. Bad bearings causing the rotor to wobble inside the stator causing spikes in the current draw, combined with marginal wiring? Broken rotor sections possibly, too.

Certainly a real possibility given the age alone but I'm not there with my 2140, Thermal and 43-B or capacitor checker to see for sure.

Based on what is visible and the account, there's more than enough wiring issues to give the impression of a faulty motor too and there is no question they are faulty.

I recommend rewiring the circuit and right sizing the starter first and then evaluate the motor.

 

[SubLGT]

All of this starts at the service entrance ( where line power enters your property at the main with presumably a 200 amp main breaker) and single phase.

I believe he wrote his main breaker is 100A

Within the "main" box is a 100A 2-pole that serves the entire house, a 60A 2-pole that serves the entire shop, and a 30A 2-pole that appears to do absolutely nothing.