Schaeffers vs. Mobil 1 - musings at 2k.

[ericthepig]

I am just under 2k on my recent fill of Schaeffers 7000 5w30 in my 98 Sienna. This was after 6 yrs on M1 (5w30,10w30,0w30 and EP 5w30). I went to Schaeffers due to its reputation on BITOG, and since I had apparently ended up w/ gummed oil rings (and thus serious consumption) after my run of M1 (though I pushed M1 sometimes out to 9k miles OCIs in the Toyota 1MZ-FE engine).

It may seem early at 2k, but I do have some things to report. This may be a case of a car "liking" or "not liking an oil" , but the from the moment I put Schaeffers in I've thought the engine is noisier than w/ M1. M1 ran exceedlingly quiet in my Sienna. Schaeffers seems a bit louder, but at WOT (on-ramps, hills, etc) the Schaeffers is very noticeably louder (higher pitch harsh sound). And this was verified by my wife - she's been complaining that she thinks the transmission is making noises - especially going up hills. So last nite we drove up some hills and she said "there's the noise". Well, the noise she's hearing is the engine noise that I've been hearing since putting in the Schaeffers. Thankfully it's not the trans.

My second pt may be due to the fact that this present run of Schaeffers immediately follows my recent cleansing with Neutra 131 - so there may be a rinse situation going on - but anyway, the oil on the dipstick at 1.9k is as dark as M1 would be when approaching 5k. I was always impressed by how long it took M1 to go to medium amber (whether being impressed here is justified, I'm not sure). But my present Schaeffers fill has dirtied up quick. Maybe its the rinse issue, maybe it's the other "non-issue" reasons an oil turns dark, or maybe it's oxidizing faster (which would be worrisome).

Thus ends my 2k report.

 

[ericthepig]

I'll piggy back this on my thread here (since this also deals w/ an engine "liking an oil"

). I'm exceedingly pleased w/ my M1 HM 10w40 fill in my 88 Mazda. I haven't ran a synthetic in this car since around 1998 - so perhaps I'd forgotten how much better a synthetic runs in this car - but my Mazda just runs, sounds, and responds very nicely with this oil. Very subjective here, but M1 HM trumps the dino in an 88 Mazda.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Well,my experience with Mobil 1,is that it`s definitely a "quieter" oil than the Royal Purple I`m running now. I get a tiny bit of lifter noise with RP. Once it`s time for my next OCI,M1 is going back in (I grabbed a jug on sale at Walmart last night).

I agree with your statement of engines liking or disliking certain oils. Some people get really good results with an oil,and the next person with a different car but same oil,will get less desirable results. I know Nissan VG30DE engines are VERY temperamental as to what oils you put in them.

 

[SargeGTO]

Well the cleaning with the Neutra 131 has changed the "playing field"...parts or areas that have developed a film (varnish/stuff) are buffered and don't make the same noises as a clean engine.....also various oils with various film strengths etc. do make different "noises"..allow your new oil to build its film and do its thing....
Think of it this way....when you clay bar your car...and get all the old wax and crud off....it squeaks when you run your finger over the paint.....then when you polish and wax it....it is smooth and doesn't make a noise....sorta the same thing going on in your newly cleaned motor.....

 

[buster]

eric, an oil getting dark means it is doing it's job. Mobil 1 is exceptional at keeping engines clean also. I think what you are seeing is Schaeffer's cleaning from the Neutra, which is also a good thing. My brother has been running Mobil 1 EP for 100k miles now in a 2001 V6 Solara. Runs like new. 8-9k mile drain intervals.

 

[INDYMAC]

I've recently switched to Schaeffer's #703 10W30 from PP 5W30 in my 2000 Tundra V-8. The PP resulted in very quiet and smooth engine operation, but produced less than stellar UOA's for the 2UZ-FE engine. The #703 resulted in louder engine operation, but is still very smooth. My initial fill with a first time use K&N oil filter also resulted in one second of piston slap on first start up after 2500 miles. I then put a fresh fill of #703 in and switched back to my usual PureOne filter and have no problems after 500 miles. I have not found this oil to get dirty quickly, but no oil dirties quickly in this engine. I'll be driving to South Dakota in a couple of weeks to chase some pheasants around, so we'll see if the piston slap returns on some colder mornings than we have here in S. Texas. UOA to follow...

 

[ericthepig]

Not sure which way I'll go. Might do dipstick sample UOA at 4.5k which could then be compared to my last M1 UOA (which was 4.2k). But if I have a rinse situation going on, this would be convoluted. Perhaps I'll dump at 4k, refill again w/ Schaeffers and then UOA during that run. (??) The van runs smooth when just tooling around, but the WOT noise makes me cringe a bit.

 

[Merkava_4]

Quote:

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I'm exceedingly pleased w/ my M1 HM 10w40 fill in my 88 Mazda.

---

Then put the M1 HM 10W-40 in the Sienna! I'm thinking the issue you had with Schaeffer's is not the Schaeffer's, but the viscosity of Schaeffer's.

5W-30 is not for everyone.

 

[ericthepig]

Merkava, M1 5w30 has been a good (or at least quiet) oil in the Sienna. And M1 is all I've ever used since I bought the van. Thus, I don't have a baseline on how this van should sound w/ dino or a blend (as is the 7000). I may treat this present fill as a rinse situation and dump a bit early and go to Schaeffers 9000 (which is 100% synthetic). I'm not sure I want to give up on Schaeffers yet - it's quality does not seem to be disputed on BITOG - and this may indeed just be the case that a blend doesn't run as quiet in this van as a pure synth. Got time to brood on it - the alternative would likely be M1 HM 10w30.

 

[ericthepig]

BTW, if SargeGTO's comments on buffers being removed in the cleaning process has standing, then it should also be noted that I followed the 500 mile Neutra cleaning w/ a 25 min. Amsoil flush. All this immediately before this Sch. 7000 fill. So if stripped buffers could be an issue, then Sch. 7000 "causing noise" should be looked at w/ even greater suspicion.

 

[ericthepig]

I am a weak minded subjective type and am unworthy to post on this forum - though I'll make this post to explain.

My wife came back to tell me - "no, the transmission is making noise, it just doesn't do it while your in the car". So I go out late last nite when there's no traffic noise and go up some hills - and there it is - a soft buzzing noise that last just a couple of seconds typically just before the car shifts from 2nd to 3rd gear. Though it also happens at other times in the speed range of 20 to 30 mph. I've heard it many times now, just had to listen for it. Anybody have any input on whether this is the sound of impending doom or just old age groaning by the trans ?

Now, on with my confessional -

My car runs quiet on Schaeffers when driving easy, however I thought it was (is) louder at WOT. However this is very subjective in that I never paid much attention to my car w/ M1 at WOT. That, plus the Sch. 7000 is a blend and M1 a full synth. And, I just did a Neutra cleans and Amsoil flush just before adding Sch. So many variables going on here and the added SUBJECTIVE issue - just not really a fair thread for Schaeffers (Schaeffer 9000 still top on my list for my next fill).

While I'm posting this confessional, I will add that I've also been impatient and compulsive. The Toyota Master Tech that outlined the Neutra cleaning plan for my gummed oil rings stated clearly that I needed to run multiple OCIs of short duration and install the Neutra for the last 500 miles of each OCI. I did one Neutra run, got impatient and dropped Schaeffer 7000 in. I now have oil that's quickly getting dirty (probably from rinse) and I still have 1/2 qt in first 1k mile consumption. The master tech said that my Toyota engine (w/ present miles on it) should be conuming very little oil even in 5k. So I've still got a problem and don't need to be returning (yet) to my long drain ways. To shorten this story, I'm returning (immediately) to the original Neutra plan. So the Sch. 7000 is going to have a short stay in the engine (sub 3k - and it's ending with Neutra).

Sorry to bother everyone with a convoluted review of Schaeffers 7000 in this engine.

 

[bmwtechguy]

Schaeffers also makes a full syn 5W-30 now for your consideration, and I am planning to eventually get some to try once we have used up the 7000. We have also used the Neutra purge and Amsoil flush products with good success. I like Auto-Rx for thorough, gentle cleaning, but it takes longer to see results, and certainly costs more. I believe I know the Toyota tech you mentioned, and he certainly knows his stuff. He also knows Schaeffers and Amsoil products firsthand, and I believe you have gotten good advice from him so far. I got a Ford V6 to go from using one quart of synthetic oil every 1500-2000 miles down to 1 quart of Schaeffers blend every 5000 miles. This after a couple runs of ARX, some Lube Control and then some Neutra purges. I guess you could say that I threw everything in the book at it. At 214,000 miles it uses little oil now, runs well, and leaks no oil either. I am keeping it clean with the ARX maintenance dose protocol. Just my experience to compare to.

 

[ericthepig]

BMWtech,

Neutra made a big impact with that first run. If that trend doesn't continue w/ these next runs then I'll definitely be looking at A-rx.

Mokanic is the Toyota mech. I was referencing. I think he may be taking a sabatical from BITOG. Haven't seen him around in a while.

 

[BennyL]

quick question guys... anyone know where in Buffalo area one could purchase Schaeffers products?

 

[ericthepig]

BTW, I'm holding out hope here on my transmission - I just heard from a guy on a Sienna forum that I need to chk the heat shield on the cat - it can get loose and causes an intermittent buzzing. There's hope.

BennyL - go to Schaeffers web site and do a dealer search (the search button is on their home page). You put in your zip and it gives you the closest distribution sites. Mine is about 25 min away - though it's in a direction I almost never travel (argh).

 

[bmwtechguy]

May I also suggest you also call the Schaeffers site sponsor here. He has excellent product knowledge and is great to deal with.