Ruger LCR in .38 or .357 -- good carry pistol?
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I carry a .357 LCR with .38+P ammo.
I like the stainless steel (.357 LCR) vs. aluminum (.38 LCR) the extra 4oz does not matter to me.
What does matter is that at 7 yards, I am as accurate with the LCR as I am with my wife's S&W .357 with 4" barrel (very accurate gun).
I like the stainless steel (.357 LCR) vs. aluminum (.38 LCR) the extra 4oz does not matter to me.
What does matter is that at 7 yards, I am as accurate with the LCR as I am with my wife's S&W .357 with 4" barrel (very accurate gun).
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In that case, sounds like you're on the right track.
Best advice in that case would be to try the different models out. Personally, I would go with a .357. That way, I can load it all the way up to 125gr JHPs in .357 if I really need to (I am a Speer fan, though I currently carry the Federal), or load it down to wad cutters, and all points in between including .38 and .38 +P, as the situation requires. While the modern .38SPL +P rounds are really good, I would like the full range of options, and that means a .357. I don't think a few ounces one way or the other is going to make you leave the gun at home...
Ammo is coming back down to relatively cheap levels, for example, I have bought 9mm for .27/round lately (Winchester White Box), but all ammo is expensive in an absolute sense...my ammo budget exceeds my beer budget by a wide margin...
Best advice in that case would be to try the different models out. Personally, I would go with a .357. That way, I can load it all the way up to 125gr JHPs in .357 if I really need to (I am a Speer fan, though I currently carry the Federal), or load it down to wad cutters, and all points in between including .38 and .38 +P, as the situation requires. While the modern .38SPL +P rounds are really good, I would like the full range of options, and that means a .357. I don't think a few ounces one way or the other is going to make you leave the gun at home...
Ammo is coming back down to relatively cheap levels, for example, I have bought 9mm for .27/round lately (Winchester White Box), but all ammo is expensive in an absolute sense...my ammo budget exceeds my beer budget by a wide margin...
A pilot with a small beer budget sounds attractive .....
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
A pilot with a small beer budget sounds attractive .....
Easy now, PapaBear....I didn't say my beer budget was small...just that my ammo budget exceeds it!
Cheers,
Astro
A pilot with a small beer budget sounds attractive .....
Easy now, PapaBear....I didn't say my beer budget was small...just that my ammo budget exceeds it!
Cheers,
Astro
If you need/want another hobby, you could reload. I just reload for .40 and .357. I can make whatever I need; plinking ammo or full-power defensive rounds. Components are spotty, in that sometimes you can't find powder, but bullets and primers are plentiful; and so forth. Don't go nuts, if you buy 1k of bullets, brass and primers; a pound of powder will see you through several months of practice rounds. I can make make .40 for $.21 ea. and .356 magnum for between $.24 for plinking to $.40 for a full-power premium bullet round.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
All I can really say is that with the stock grips....it's exceptional as a firearm and has a great feel in the hand. No need for those laser grips....not anywhere near worth it in my book and it ruins the nice grip.
It's a weapon, not a soft cuddly kitten that you snuggle with. Laser grips are INCREDIBLY useful in self defense scenarios, ESPECIALLY with a 5 shot revolver where you have to make your hits count. Laser grips should be on every carry and night stand pistol, if you value your life, in my opinion.
All I can really say is that with the stock grips....it's exceptional as a firearm and has a great feel in the hand. No need for those laser grips....not anywhere near worth it in my book and it ruins the nice grip.
It's a weapon, not a soft cuddly kitten that you snuggle with. Laser grips are INCREDIBLY useful in self defense scenarios, ESPECIALLY with a 5 shot revolver where you have to make your hits count. Laser grips should be on every carry and night stand pistol, if you value your life, in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
You've got two purposes for the same gun: concealed carry and target shooting.
He is absolutely 100% correct. Decide what you want first. Every gun has a purpose. Small lightweight carry guns are for carrying. Heavier, longer barrel guns are good for the night stand and target shooting.
The factory grips on the Ruger are humongous target grips and suck for concealment. When replaced with laser grips, they conceal much better. The Smith & Wesson 642/442/340 models are fantastic concealment pistols. They suck as target guns though.
I carry a Smith 340 with laser grips (almost a $1000 pistol) most days of the month, because it is super lightweight (11 ounces scandium aluminum alloy) , powerful, small, and easily conceals. I am well aware that the pistol is not fun to shoot, but as a carry gun, it is unbeatable.
You've got two purposes for the same gun: concealed carry and target shooting.
He is absolutely 100% correct. Decide what you want first. Every gun has a purpose. Small lightweight carry guns are for carrying. Heavier, longer barrel guns are good for the night stand and target shooting.
The factory grips on the Ruger are humongous target grips and suck for concealment. When replaced with laser grips, they conceal much better. The Smith & Wesson 642/442/340 models are fantastic concealment pistols. They suck as target guns though.
I carry a Smith 340 with laser grips (almost a $1000 pistol) most days of the month, because it is super lightweight (11 ounces scandium aluminum alloy) , powerful, small, and easily conceals. I am well aware that the pistol is not fun to shoot, but as a carry gun, it is unbeatable.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: andrewg
All I can really say is that with the stock grips....it's exceptional as a firearm and has a great feel in the hand. No need for those laser grips....not anywhere near worth it in my book and it ruins the nice grip.
It's a weapon, not a soft cuddly kitten that you snuggle with. Laser grips are INCREDIBLY useful in self defense scenarios, ESPECIALLY with a 5 shot revolver where you have to make your hits count. Laser grips should be on every carry and night stand pistol, if you value your life, in my opinion.
I don't own laser grips...yet...but I have to agree with bubbatime here: they are incredibly useful. Quicker target acquisition, more accurate shot placement, more rapid follow-up shots, and very useful in diagnosing trigger control and grip issues. I wouldn't knock laser grips....
Interestingly, my wife prefers the weight, familiarity and capacity of her Beretta 92 as a night stand gun. She knows it well from her years in the military, shoots it very well at the range, and appreciates its reliability.
Now, she couldn't conceal it on her size 2 frame unless she was wearing LL Bean's biggest parka...and even then, I am not sure...but it's a great choice for nightstand and target shooting...
Originally Posted By: andrewg
All I can really say is that with the stock grips....it's exceptional as a firearm and has a great feel in the hand. No need for those laser grips....not anywhere near worth it in my book and it ruins the nice grip.
It's a weapon, not a soft cuddly kitten that you snuggle with. Laser grips are INCREDIBLY useful in self defense scenarios, ESPECIALLY with a 5 shot revolver where you have to make your hits count. Laser grips should be on every carry and night stand pistol, if you value your life, in my opinion.
I don't own laser grips...yet...but I have to agree with bubbatime here: they are incredibly useful. Quicker target acquisition, more accurate shot placement, more rapid follow-up shots, and very useful in diagnosing trigger control and grip issues. I wouldn't knock laser grips....
Interestingly, my wife prefers the weight, familiarity and capacity of her Beretta 92 as a night stand gun. She knows it well from her years in the military, shoots it very well at the range, and appreciates its reliability.
Now, she couldn't conceal it on her size 2 frame unless she was wearing LL Bean's biggest parka...and even then, I am not sure...but it's a great choice for nightstand and target shooting...
I've not had any problems concealing the LCR with the stock grips in a pocket holster.
I wear suits or dress slacks that tend to have larger pockets than blue jeans, however.
I've always considered a snubby to be an up close, and personal, weapon of last resort. I don't see the utility of a laser on a snubby, especially when it makes it an order of magnitude more unpleasant to handle and fire, as it does, imo, on the LCR.
Honestly, I don't really see the utility of a laser on any sidearm. I have a couple of Sig lasers and when I use them I have a propensity to chase the laser, when I should just be aiming the weapon. Perhaps extensive practice with the laser would ameliorate that issue, but I don't have that luxury and prefer just to aim the darn gun.
What do you do if the laser doesn't work? You have to aim the gun anyway. Might as well be proficient at it.
I wear suits or dress slacks that tend to have larger pockets than blue jeans, however.
I've always considered a snubby to be an up close, and personal, weapon of last resort. I don't see the utility of a laser on a snubby, especially when it makes it an order of magnitude more unpleasant to handle and fire, as it does, imo, on the LCR.
Honestly, I don't really see the utility of a laser on any sidearm. I have a couple of Sig lasers and when I use them I have a propensity to chase the laser, when I should just be aiming the weapon. Perhaps extensive practice with the laser would ameliorate that issue, but I don't have that luxury and prefer just to aim the darn gun.
What do you do if the laser doesn't work? You have to aim the gun anyway. Might as well be proficient at it.
Originally Posted By: Win
I've not had any problems concealing the LCR with the stock grips in a pocket holster.
I can't conceal the LCR with stock grips in any of my pants. I can conceal a Glock 26 in 75% of my pants. I can conceal a Smith 340 in 100% of my pants. The LCR is larger than the Glock 26, concealment wise, with the stock grip.
Originally Posted By: Win
I've always considered a snubby to be an up close, and personal, weapon of last resort. I don't see the utility of a laser on a snubby, especially when it makes it an order of magnitude more unpleasant to handle and fire, as it does, imo, on the LCR.
You don't see the utility of a device where you can make accurate, quick, repeatable shots out to 40-50 yards or so, especially at night when most crimes occur? Shots with faster split times?
Originally Posted By: Win
Honestly, I don't really see the utility of a laser on any sidearm.
I don't think you have ever properly trained with laser grips. If you had, your opinion would be vastly different. Why even comment on something you know nothing about? I don't go to basket weaving forums and comment on different basket weaving patterns.
Originally Posted By: Win
I have a couple of Sig lasers and when I use them I have a propensity to chase the laser, when I should just be aiming the weapon. Perhaps extensive practice with the laser would ameliorate that issue, but I don't have that luxury and prefer just to aim the darn gun.
Correct. Additional training will fix many issues. it will also show the value of lasers and flashlights mounted to guns.
Originally Posted By: Win
What do you do if the laser doesn't work? You have to aim the gun anyway. Might as well be proficient at it.
You revert back to proper training and technique that you should have already been proficient in before training with lasers.
I've not had any problems concealing the LCR with the stock grips in a pocket holster.
I can't conceal the LCR with stock grips in any of my pants. I can conceal a Glock 26 in 75% of my pants. I can conceal a Smith 340 in 100% of my pants. The LCR is larger than the Glock 26, concealment wise, with the stock grip.
Originally Posted By: Win
I've always considered a snubby to be an up close, and personal, weapon of last resort. I don't see the utility of a laser on a snubby, especially when it makes it an order of magnitude more unpleasant to handle and fire, as it does, imo, on the LCR.
You don't see the utility of a device where you can make accurate, quick, repeatable shots out to 40-50 yards or so, especially at night when most crimes occur? Shots with faster split times?
Originally Posted By: Win
Honestly, I don't really see the utility of a laser on any sidearm.
I don't think you have ever properly trained with laser grips. If you had, your opinion would be vastly different. Why even comment on something you know nothing about? I don't go to basket weaving forums and comment on different basket weaving patterns.
Originally Posted By: Win
I have a couple of Sig lasers and when I use them I have a propensity to chase the laser, when I should just be aiming the weapon. Perhaps extensive practice with the laser would ameliorate that issue, but I don't have that luxury and prefer just to aim the darn gun.
Correct. Additional training will fix many issues. it will also show the value of lasers and flashlights mounted to guns.
Originally Posted By: Win
What do you do if the laser doesn't work? You have to aim the gun anyway. Might as well be proficient at it.
You revert back to proper training and technique that you should have already been proficient in before training with lasers.
Lasers slow you down. We're taking about shooting targets a couple feet away. We don't need accuracy improvement we need quickness improvement. Sure they'll help you with 50 yards hits but what's the chances a civilian will be performing 50 yards shots with their J frame?
Lasers don't help much at 50 yards. Close in is where they make such a big difference. The laser can be on target before the sights are in the shooter's field of view. I've done a lot of non-aimed shooting, you would call it "from the hip" with live ammo on certain ranges (most places won't allow this close in training) and a laser would be a great help in learning to shoot instinctively at the 1.5 - 3 yard range. I've acquired the skill over thousands of rounds. A laser would have helped reduce the time and rounds needed to become proficient and it sure would help when the target is close and intends to do you harm.
Lasers don't slow you down, they make you more effective, and your training more effective, especially at close range.
This anti-laser discussion is like reading an anti-ABS argument. Sure, I can drive without it (still don't have it on the Packard or my truck), and driving without it, learning to threshold brake, should be part of driver training, but having ABS make panic stops and emergencies easier for every driver.
Here's a good example of a fitment that doesn't change the ergonomics or concealability of the J-Frame: http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/smith-wesson/01-1150
Lasers don't slow you down, they make you more effective, and your training more effective, especially at close range.
This anti-laser discussion is like reading an anti-ABS argument. Sure, I can drive without it (still don't have it on the Packard or my truck), and driving without it, learning to threshold brake, should be part of driver training, but having ABS make panic stops and emergencies easier for every driver.
Here's a good example of a fitment that doesn't change the ergonomics or concealability of the J-Frame: http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/smith-wesson/01-1150
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
.... Close in is where they make such a big difference. The laser can be on target before the sights are in the shooter's field of view. I've done a lot of non-aimed shooting, you would call it "from the hip" .....
Interesting.
Still don't like the crimson trace grip on the LCR, though.
.... Close in is where they make such a big difference. The laser can be on target before the sights are in the shooter's field of view. I've done a lot of non-aimed shooting, you would call it "from the hip" .....
Interesting.
Still don't like the crimson trace grip on the LCR, though.
Originally Posted By: hatt
If you practice you're going to be effective without a laser. If you don't practice the laser isn't going to help much. Get mad all you want.
Not mad. You've ignored my point on the benefit of lasers providing more rapid skill development. Seems to me that you're deliberately ignoring that part of the discussion. In fact, the use of a laser in initial training with a pistol can really help a shooter see the natural aim point of the gun, and can really help identify trigger problems: jerking, recoil anticipation, etc.
You're also oversimplifying the rest of discussion without consideration of the effectiveness of an average shooter. There are few places where you can practice the type of shooting (close range, weapon not clear of your body, support hand ready to defend, etc.) in which a laser would benefit every shooter. So, "practice" is a somewhat specious suggestion, because most people can't practice that type of shooting.
The big barrier to lasers is the cost: $300+ for a Crimson Trace, for example. Less for the modules that mount on a rail, but those become problematic in a holster or for concealment.
If you practice you're going to be effective without a laser. If you don't practice the laser isn't going to help much. Get mad all you want.
Not mad. You've ignored my point on the benefit of lasers providing more rapid skill development. Seems to me that you're deliberately ignoring that part of the discussion. In fact, the use of a laser in initial training with a pistol can really help a shooter see the natural aim point of the gun, and can really help identify trigger problems: jerking, recoil anticipation, etc.
You're also oversimplifying the rest of discussion without consideration of the effectiveness of an average shooter. There are few places where you can practice the type of shooting (close range, weapon not clear of your body, support hand ready to defend, etc.) in which a laser would benefit every shooter. So, "practice" is a somewhat specious suggestion, because most people can't practice that type of shooting.
The big barrier to lasers is the cost: $300+ for a Crimson Trace, for example. Less for the modules that mount on a rail, but those become problematic in a holster or for concealment.
Originally Posted By: hatt
If you practice you're going to be effective without a laser. If you don't practice the laser isn't going to help much. Get mad all you want.
I've ACTUALLY pointed a firearm with a laser at a person. You know what they did? They hit the dirt faster than a sack of potatoes and surrendered. The psychological effect of a laser dancing over a persons heart should not be ignored. Lasers can save lives by avoiding deadly force confrontations altogether.
If you practice you're going to be effective without a laser. If you don't practice the laser isn't going to help much. Get mad all you want.
I've ACTUALLY pointed a firearm with a laser at a person. You know what they did? They hit the dirt faster than a sack of potatoes and surrendered. The psychological effect of a laser dancing over a persons heart should not be ignored. Lasers can save lives by avoiding deadly force confrontations altogether.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I've ACTUALLY pointed a firearm with a laser at a person. You know what they did? They hit the dirt faster than a sack of potatoes and surrendered. The psychological effect of a laser dancing over a persons heart should not be ignored. Lasers can save lives by avoiding deadly force confrontations altogether.
Some people don't care much about surrendering when the bullets hit them. A laser/shotgun racking/whatever else isn't going to impress them so much. Around here we can't point guns at folks for the heck of it anyway. You need as much justification to shoot them as to point the gun. I'm shooting if I need to use my gun. Not displaying it hoping they run off.
I've ACTUALLY pointed a firearm with a laser at a person. You know what they did? They hit the dirt faster than a sack of potatoes and surrendered. The psychological effect of a laser dancing over a persons heart should not be ignored. Lasers can save lives by avoiding deadly force confrontations altogether.
Some people don't care much about surrendering when the bullets hit them. A laser/shotgun racking/whatever else isn't going to impress them so much. Around here we can't point guns at folks for the heck of it anyway. You need as much justification to shoot them as to point the gun. I'm shooting if I need to use my gun. Not displaying it hoping they run off.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: andrewg
All I can really say is that with the stock grips....it's exceptional as a firearm and has a great feel in the hand. No need for those laser grips....not anywhere near worth it in my book and it ruins the nice grip.
It's a weapon, not a soft cuddly kitten that you snuggle with. Laser grips are INCREDIBLY useful in self defense scenarios, ESPECIALLY with a 5 shot revolver where you have to make your hits count. Laser grips should be on every carry and night stand pistol, if you value your life, in my opinion.
I don't own laser grips...yet...but I have to agree with bubbatime here: they are incredibly useful. Quicker target acquisition, more accurate shot placement, more rapid follow-up shots, and very useful in diagnosing trigger control and grip issues. I wouldn't knock laser grips...
Not to mention that when you put a laser on someone you're about to shoot, it pretty much freaks them out and it may be that you don't have to even follow through with a trigger pull.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: andrewg
All I can really say is that with the stock grips....it's exceptional as a firearm and has a great feel in the hand. No need for those laser grips....not anywhere near worth it in my book and it ruins the nice grip.
It's a weapon, not a soft cuddly kitten that you snuggle with. Laser grips are INCREDIBLY useful in self defense scenarios, ESPECIALLY with a 5 shot revolver where you have to make your hits count. Laser grips should be on every carry and night stand pistol, if you value your life, in my opinion.
I don't own laser grips...yet...but I have to agree with bubbatime here: they are incredibly useful. Quicker target acquisition, more accurate shot placement, more rapid follow-up shots, and very useful in diagnosing trigger control and grip issues. I wouldn't knock laser grips...
Not to mention that when you put a laser on someone you're about to shoot, it pretty much freaks them out and it may be that you don't have to even follow through with a trigger pull.
I have a laser on a pistol with the intent it may have to be used if I cannot obtain a proper sight picture.
But if you think you'll always be able to have proper form, correct sight alignment, and precise sight placement, then maybe lasers aren't for you.
The other benefits mentioned by bubba and Astro are spot on.
But if you think you'll always be able to have proper form, correct sight alignment, and precise sight placement, then maybe lasers aren't for you.
The other benefits mentioned by bubba and Astro are spot on.
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