Rotella T6, Mobil 1 TDT or AMSoil Series 3000 HDEO

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have a reference for the 900ppm P content of RT6?

I have been going by this VOA, which shows 1078ppm: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939470#Post1939470

(Since it is a Blackstone analysis, I am assuming that their reading is 10-15% low, which would put the P content of RT6 at ~1200ppm.

Similarly, here is a VOA of TDT, which shows 934ppm P. Because Mobil's PDS specifies 1100ppm, and Blackstone is coming up 15% short on P, I tend to believe Mobil instead of Blackstone's analysis.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939477#Post1939477

Thanks. I now remember that VOA. Certainly 1100 ppm P is pretty strong level of ZDDP, as the CJ-4 maximum limit is 1200 ppm P. It makes Rotella T6 even more attractive.

The UOAs I saw were these and there was another one. There are also this UOA and this one. For some reason P values for Rotella T6 are all over the place, possibly due to the accuracy of Blackstone numbers and also whatever happens to the additives in used oil.

TDT is also probably a very good oil except for lack of moly (perhaps not a problem in modern engines) and some viscosity-shear problems in certain applications (perhaps not a problem in gas engines that can use 5W-30) . I was surprised to see how low ZDDP was in Delvac 1 ESP (assuming the UOA numbers are accurate) and it didn't have moly either, as I was expecting it to be more additive-loaded than TDT. I guess the explicit "ESP" designation makes it more tailored for strict emission-systems protection.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have a reference for the 900ppm P content of RT6?

I have been going by this VOA, which shows 1078ppm: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939470#Post1939470

(Since it is a Blackstone analysis, I am assuming that their reading is 10-15% low, which would put the P content of RT6 at ~1200ppm.

Similarly, here is a VOA of TDT, which shows 934ppm P. Because Mobil's PDS specifies 1100ppm, and Blackstone is coming up 15% short on P, I tend to believe Mobil instead of Blackstone's analysis.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939477#Post1939477

Thanks. I now remember that VOA. Certainly 1100 ppm P is pretty strong level of ZDDP, as the CJ-4 maximum limit is 1200 ppm P. It makes Rotella T6 even more attractive.

The UOAs I saw were these and there was another one. There are also this UOA and this one. For some reason P values for Rotella T6 are all over the place, possibly due to the accuracy of Blackstone numbers and also whatever happens to the additives in used oil.

TDT is also probably a very good oil except for lack of moly (perhaps not a problem in modern engines) and some viscosity-shear problems in certain applications (perhaps not a problem in gas engines that can use 5W-30) . I was surprised to see how low ZDDP was in Delvac 1 ESP (assuming the UOA numbers are accurate) and it didn't have moly either, as I was expecting it to be more additive-loaded than TDT. I guess the explicit "ESP" designation makes it more tailored for strict emission-systems protection.


http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/motoroil/files/mobil_1_product_guide.pdf


Trying to use VOA or UOA to determine exact content is not valid. CJ-4 has a strict limit on ZZDP and Moly content.

Both TDT and D1 ESP are CJ-4 oils. Same with RTS / T6. As are these others:

More discussion here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215098

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Trying to use VOA or UOA to determine exact content is not valid. CJ-4 has a strict limit on ZZDP and Moly content.

Both TDT and D1 ESP are CJ-4 oils. Same with RTS / T6. As are these others:

These are the ZDDP limits for CJ-4:
no min, 1200 ppm P max

These are the ZDDP limits for SM xW/40 and xW/50 grades:
600 ppm P min, no max

Combining CJ-4 and SM results in the following limits for CJ-4/SM:
600 ppm P min, 1200 ppm P max

Therefore, ZDDP content in CJ-4/SM oils can vary between 600 - 1200 ppm phosphorus.

(Note: Same ZDDP limits for SM apply to SN as well.)

There is no moly limit in CJ-4 or SM/SN. Sulfur limit and sulphated-ash limit is high enough to support plenty of moly compounds.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Trying to use VOA or UOA to determine exact content is not valid. CJ-4 has a strict limit on ZZDP and Moly content.

Both TDT and D1 ESP are CJ-4 oils. Same with RTS / T6. As are these others:

These are the ZDDP limits for CJ-4:
no min, 1200 ppm P max

These are the ZDDP limits for SM xW/40 and xW/50 grades:
600 ppm P min, no max

Combining CJ-4 and SM results in the following limits for CJ-4/SM:
600 ppm P min, 1200 ppm P max

Therefore, ZDDP content in CJ-4/SM oils can vary between 600 - 1200 ppm phosphorus.

(Note: Same ZDDP limits for SM apply to SN as well.)

There is no moly limit in CJ-4 or SM/SN. Sulfur limit and sulphated-ash limit is high enough to support plenty of moly compounds.


SAPS is exactly why Redline 5w40 has less moly than 0w40. 5w40 is CJ-4 compliant, 0w40 is not. Their 0w40 has about 8x the moly of the 5w40. Some CJ-4 oils have no moly, some have a small amount (150 ppm or less) of moly.

How a blender goes about meeting CJ-4 [and other HD specs] with regard to additives is their purview. This can be discussed here until Dec 21st, 2012 comes, but it's all really just speculation when the oils involved are all basically the same (in the case of CJ-4 5w40s).

Here is what Mobil says about TDT from my link above. Expect the UOA/VOA variance to vary

P: 1100 ppm
Zn: 1200 ppm

Redline about their 5w40:

P: 1175 ppm
Zn: 1330 ppm

The other CJ-4 oils will generally have the same ZDDP levels.

None (or so close to none as to be none) of us are qualified to determine which CJ-4 5w40 is better, and certainly not by looking at a VOA or UOA.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Do you have a reference for the 900ppm P content of RT6?

I have been going by this VOA, which shows 1078ppm: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939470#Post1939470

(Since it is a Blackstone analysis, I am assuming that their reading is 10-15% low, which would put the P content of RT6 at ~1200ppm.

Similarly, here is a VOA of TDT, which shows 934ppm P. Because Mobil's PDS specifies 1100ppm, and Blackstone is coming up 15% short on P, I tend to believe Mobil instead of Blackstone's analysis.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939477#Post1939477

Thanks. I now remember that VOA. Certainly 1100 ppm P is pretty strong level of ZDDP, as the CJ-4 maximum limit is 1200 ppm P. It makes Rotella T6 even more attractive.

The UOAs I saw were these and there was another one. There are also this UOA and this one. For some reason P values for Rotella T6 are all over the place, possibly due to the accuracy of Blackstone numbers and also whatever happens to the additives in used oil.

TDT is also probably a very good oil except for lack of moly (perhaps not a problem in modern engines) and some viscosity-shear problems in certain applications (perhaps not a problem in gas engines that can use 5W-30) . I was surprised to see how low ZDDP was in Delvac 1 ESP (assuming the UOA numbers are accurate) and it didn't have moly either, as I was expecting it to be more additive-loaded than TDT. I guess the explicit "ESP" designation makes it more tailored for strict emission-systems protection.


http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/motoroil/files/mobil_1_product_guide.pdf


Trying to use VOA or UOA to determine exact content is not valid. CJ-4 has a strict limit on ZZDP and Moly content.

Both TDT and D1 ESP are CJ-4 oils. Same with RTS / T6. As are these others:

More discussion here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215098


Thanks for the oil specs, Bob. I have been collecting data on 5w40's for my Cummins Dodge when it comes time to drain the TDT. I am 70% sure I'll go to Schaeffer S9000, but 30% of me may want to go cheap with RT6. One piece of info I got from Caterham a couple of months ago is the HTHS for RT6: 4.0

For my older truck without emissions controls and the fact that I'm feeding it a steady diet of Waste Motor Oil (10-15%) in the fuel, I just can't get excited about TBN's below 10.0.

 

[Marisa]

I have to say this old thread was a really great read from a variety of applications and very articulate individuals. I'm hoping the TDI PD owners who posted see this and can tell me if there is anything better than the Rotella T6 for the cam grinding pump Duse engines? Pulling my hair out here.

 

[Marisa]

Nvm got Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 35% off with a $60 rebate.

 

[Killer223]

4 year old thread. nice.