Recomend Oil for Honda Type R w/ Dry Start Noise.

[94eg]

Hello everyone,

I drive a 94 Honda Civic with a JDM B18C Type R swap in it for several years now. I did the work myself and it runs quite well. Only issue I've got is it seems to have a noisy "dry start" every time after it's cooled off. The noise stops the instant the motor builds oil pressure. I don't know if it's normal for this type of high compression (11.1:1) & rpm (8500rpm) motor, but I do know I don't like the sound at all.

I change the oil about once or twice a year, and it only gets about 2 to 4 thousand miles between each change. Miles are mostly freeway to and from work cruising @ 75mph/3800rpm. I do have a little street driving with fun sprints here and there, but I'm not that hard on it as I still manage 30-36mpg each tank (Chevron 91 octane). I've always run 5w30 synthetic of one brand or another (Q-horsepower, Mobil-1, Penzoil-Plat), along with Mobil-1 oil filters (tried both M1-104 and M1-110), but the dry-start sound always persists.

The inside of the motor seems quite spotless through the valve cover even though the swap is of unknown mileage (pics below). Doesn't seem to burn any oil between changes either (which I hear is common on these motors). Compression looks nice and even across all 4 cylinders. Plugs look good and clean and are changed once a year (NGK V-power copper). The only visible problem I seem to have with the motor is a bit of oil leaking from the hose ports on the factory PCV catch can. It's barely enough to make one drop on my garage floor in all this time.

Thanks for any help/recommendations you can provide. Don't hesitate to ask any questions if I've failed to include important information.

 

[sicko]

What filter are you using? Have you ever tried a different filter to see how that affects the dry start noise?

 

[mechtech2]

Factory PCV catch can?
Never heard of , or have seen one.

I am not sure what your dry start noise is. Is it a tick that goes away? A grinding or rubbing? Squealing?
Could be a drive belt or poor initial oil flow due to a bad oil filter.

BTW, the inside of the engine pictured is not spotless. There are carbon and varnish deposits. Not on the valve spring retainer and lock nut, but look anywhere else.

 

[Mr Nice]

any brand dino will do just fine

that goes for all 'Type R' and 'Type S' engines

 

[94eg]

As I said I've used Mobil-1 M1-110 and M1-104 filters. I've been through many oil changes and it never makes a difference so I'm pretty sure it's not the filter. It sounds like momentary noisy valvetrain at startup. Kinda rattly with a little screech occasionally (the part that worries me). Just enough that other people have said "what was that" when I fire it up. It's definitely not belt related.

I don't see varnish in the pics. Only small gold/bronze colored oil pools in random places. Either way it shouldn't have anything to do with the noise...

Here's a pic of the factory catch can on the back of the block (it's #2 in the pic). The #7 hose flows from the head, the #11 o-ring flows from the block, and the #5/6 hoses flow from the can through the PCV and into the manifold:

 

[ottotheclown]

Thank you for the pic. Helps making opinions seem so much more real. If you look at the cheap oil cheap filters thread you will see a pretty clean engine. More clean that yours seems to be through that little oil hole. Now using the logic of cheap oil and filters that are still doing a good job, and are dino, I might consider using a good dino like Mobil Clean 5,000 and see what happens. With start up noise and deposits using syn, hey they do not seem to be doing such a good job, try plan B. What could happen?? Start up noise and deposits?? You already have them worth trying..

 

[lui]

the sound is normal....but you can try adjusting the valve lash. it will help in keeping the sound down when cold.

does the engine still have the OEM cast pistons or aftermarket forged pistons?

 

[94eg]

Yes it still has cast pistons (with moly coated skirts). Totally stock engine as far as I'm aware. Of course I never took it apart...

 

[lui]

you should hear the racket my B20 makes with forged pistons when cold.....haha....i wouldn't worry much about it...im sure its fine.

 

[JAG]

All those oils you said you tried have at least one thing in common: none to little esters used. Try Red Line 5W-30. Maybe it will help. ogracing is a good online source.

 

[94eg]

Lui, the reassurance helps put my mind at ease. Thanks.

Originally Posted By: JAG
All those oils you said you tried have at least one thing in common: none to little esters used. Try Red Line 5W-30. Maybe it will help. ogracing is a good online source.


No chance I'm spending $75 shipped for 5 quarts of oil on a hunch. I appreciate your input though...

Sounds like the problem may be none too serious to begin with.

 

[JAG]

They have free shipping on orders over $100 so the trick is to buy enough to get that deal. Then run Red Line for a year and the oil cost is insignificant compared to most other yearly expenses.

 

[calvinnnnnnnnn]

Originally Posted By: sicko
What filter are you using? Have you ever tried a different filter to see how that affects the dry start noise?

my b18b1 does it too but only sometimes... once a week?

im using pureone filter with valvoline synpower

 

[ThirdeYe]

My B18B1 sounds much like a diesel until it warms up. Gotta love it.

When it's warmed up though, it sounds nice and quiet. I don't recall ever having any dry start noises though, just some piston slap.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: JAG
All those oils you said you tried have at least one thing in common: none to little esters used. Try Red Line 5W-30. Maybe it will help. ogracing is a good online source.


I have the same issue as the OP in my Acura TL J37 engine. I had red line 5w30 and the knock did not change at all. I now have Royal Purple 5w30 and I only have the knock for the first 10 seconds or so and then smooth as butter. The observation may be flawed because temps have gone up since RP in the sump. FWIW, this week the temps were down in the low to mid 30's and nothing changed as to the knock with RP. Still buttery smooth.

 

[mechtech2]

94 - YOU brought up that there was no varnish [I see carbon and varnish], so why now state that it has nothing to do with the noise?

That device is a common oil separator, not a catch can.

It is possible that you have a faulty oil filter, even though normally they have good anti drainback valves. So don't rule this out completely yet.
Is this noise emanating from the valve cover? Maybe yank the cover and nose around.

 

[Velo_Fello]

I've cured noises far worse than this with Redline. It contains a lot of Group V esters that 'stick' to the inside of the engine internals.

I keep a totally shot engine going on Redline! -- no anvil chorus on first startup.

Also, decent filters help, as already pointed out: Purolator Pure One or Mobil 1 (slightly better but much pricier).