So it sort of like chalk and cheese most of the time. No need to get into splitting hairs.
Good to know.
Good to know.
Real World Oil Testing
- Thread starter rraiderr
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Sunruh, are you planning on testing the CJ4 HDEOs, or have you done so yet? Around here I haven't seen anything but CJ4 on the shelves in a long time. I'm particularly interested in the usual suspects: Delvac 1300, Delo 400 LE, Rotella T, Rotella T6, and even the SuperTech. Any sense yet whether or not the CJ4s will hold up as well as the old formulations?
i have tested all of those but T6 and cj version of ST. none of the cj4 hold up as well as their past ci4 versions did. which is odd because cj4 rating requires the oil to pass all ci4 tests as well. my a#1 choice is any oil that is CI4+ (the plus is the allison wet clutch test).
ie:
SRT ci4 - 75.8 w/1% and flash of 390 (ie i had fuel in the oil)
SRT cj4 - 72.3 w/
granted both are in grade and did well. but if i could pick one it would be the old ci4 every time.
ie:
SRT ci4 - 75.8 w/1% and flash of 390 (ie i had fuel in the oil)
SRT cj4 - 72.3 w/
granted both are in grade and did well. but if i could pick one it would be the old ci4 every time.
CI4 or CI4+ ????
There's guys over on the Diesel UOA forum saying the ST is a really robust oil, exactly as you (sunruh) have found. Can't get it here in OZ (bummer). Has made me start looking at the really cheap supermarket stuff and maybe doing some VOAs and UOAs to try and work out what it is.
There's guys over on the Diesel UOA forum saying the ST is a really robust oil, exactly as you (sunruh) have found. Can't get it here in OZ (bummer). Has made me start looking at the really cheap supermarket stuff and maybe doing some VOAs and UOAs to try and work out what it is.
Sunruh has completed the testing.
Amsoil 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil
3.6 hrs on oil
144. on motor
S: We found very little change since the last sample from this engine. All wear read around average
for this type of engine, which, along with the steady wear trend, is a very good indication of normal wearing
parts and careful operation. We found nothing from our test data that would suggest a new mechanical
problem at 144 hours. No fuel or moisture was present, and oil filtration (see insolubles) looks great. Nice
engine and report.
INSOLUBLES: 0.1%
WATER: 0.0%
ANTIFREEZE: 0.0%
FUEL: FLASHPOINT IN F: 415
SUS VISCOSITY @ 210 F: 89.0
cSt 17.75
ALUMINUM 11
CHROMIUM 1
IRON 5
COPPER 2
LEAD 429
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 41
NICKEL 2
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 1
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 5
BORON 0
SILICON 7
SODIUM 0
CALCIUM 2949
MAGNESIUM 14
PHOSPHORUS 1101
ZINC 1153
BARIUM 0
Sunruh notes: good report! oil can actually handle 5hrs now of motor time.
Sunruh thank you very much for doing this for all of us.
Amsoil 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil
3.6 hrs on oil
144. on motor
S: We found very little change since the last sample from this engine. All wear read around average
for this type of engine, which, along with the steady wear trend, is a very good indication of normal wearing
parts and careful operation. We found nothing from our test data that would suggest a new mechanical
problem at 144 hours. No fuel or moisture was present, and oil filtration (see insolubles) looks great. Nice
engine and report.
INSOLUBLES: 0.1%
WATER: 0.0%
ANTIFREEZE: 0.0%
FUEL: FLASHPOINT IN F: 415
SUS VISCOSITY @ 210 F: 89.0
cSt 17.75
ALUMINUM 11
CHROMIUM 1
IRON 5
COPPER 2
LEAD 429
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 41
NICKEL 2
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 1
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 5
BORON 0
SILICON 7
SODIUM 0
CALCIUM 2949
MAGNESIUM 14
PHOSPHORUS 1101
ZINC 1153
BARIUM 0
Sunruh notes: good report! oil can actually handle 5hrs now of motor time.
Sunruh thank you very much for doing this for all of us.
What vehicle was the amsoil used in?.,,
How does it compare to the other oils tested?
Was that oil used in the motor and transmission type situation?.,,
I will let Sunruh respond as he did all the testing.
my 06 YZ250F and most of that time was during a TORCS race. it is a shared dry sump.
for once, amsoil finally held up (ie stayed in grade). my 3 other tests of amsoil had never stayed in grade.
this test was almost exactly the same amount of motor time as all my other tests.
viscosity wise, it was better than maxima 4 extra and motul 300v.
this version of amsoil finally makes my top 5 in results.
HOWEVER, due to price. like those other 2 mentioned, it is not in the top 10 in bang/buck.
if i was considering a 250+ mile race with no possibility of changing the oil. then yes i would recommend it. for anything less than the baja 250, (unless you are sponsored) the cost puts it at the "reality check" range.
i would love to see a 600rr/gsx600/636/r6 put this oil through 3-4k miles and see how it holds up in those motors.
for once, amsoil finally held up (ie stayed in grade). my 3 other tests of amsoil had never stayed in grade.
this test was almost exactly the same amount of motor time as all my other tests.
viscosity wise, it was better than maxima 4 extra and motul 300v.
this version of amsoil finally makes my top 5 in results.
HOWEVER, due to price. like those other 2 mentioned, it is not in the top 10 in bang/buck.
if i was considering a 250+ mile race with no possibility of changing the oil. then yes i would recommend it. for anything less than the baja 250, (unless you are sponsored) the cost puts it at the "reality check" range.
i would love to see a 600rr/gsx600/636/r6 put this oil through 3-4k miles and see how it holds up in those motors.
That oil is extremely heavy though by the numbers, it ought to hold up better than anything else. Would you try this oil in your vfr?
My vfr, the only amsoil Ive run has been the 15w40 grade, it normally a high 30 weight by 2000 mile, but thats double the distance of miles what the bike will do to a 5w40 rotella by 1000 miles. Normally I do 1500 to 2500 mile intervals, depending on wether its a car oil or diesil.
I wonder if that heavy of oil would cause a power reduction.
My vfr, the only amsoil Ive run has been the 15w40 grade, it normally a high 30 weight by 2000 mile, but thats double the distance of miles what the bike will do to a 5w40 rotella by 1000 miles. Normally I do 1500 to 2500 mile intervals, depending on wether its a car oil or diesil.
I wonder if that heavy of oil would cause a power reduction.
On a side note, I tried running a straight 30 weight in the vfr, just for fun. the ouside temps were in the 50's to 60's, I saw 175 degree water temps, to maybe 180, thats fairly cool for a vfr. I ran that oil 400 mile, and it drained like it have zero viscosity. I mean like water, drip free in 15 seconds, total dump time. Scared the Heck out of me LOl!
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all of the sae30's that i have tested came out better than all but 1 of the 10w40s. 10w40's tend to *SUCK*!!!
Originally Posted By: sunruh
all of the sae30's that i have tested came out better than all but 1 of the 10w40s. 10w40's tend to *SUCK*!!!
That's because they mostly all use a good dosage of VII's. Some blenders use better VII's than others, therefor all else being equal - some will show more shear than others.
all of the sae30's that i have tested came out better than all but 1 of the 10w40s. 10w40's tend to *SUCK*!!!
That's because they mostly all use a good dosage of VII's. Some blenders use better VII's than others, therefor all else being equal - some will show more shear than others.
Ive ran many 10w40s and never have a seen any hot drain this thin, I mean it was like kerosene.
even 10w30's Ive never seen drain this thin, it was like it started out as a 30 weight and went straight to zero in a hot condition.
That was castrol HD sae 30 and it only had 400 mile on the oil
even 10w30's Ive never seen drain this thin, it was like it started out as a 30 weight and went straight to zero in a hot condition.
That was castrol HD sae 30 and it only had 400 mile on the oil
oh you didnt say castrol before. there has only been 1 product from that has is worth a hoot -> Syntec 0w30. Elvish goodness. gtx is pure [censored]! and their motorcycle specific is a horrid pic of an even worse oil.
But a 0w30 is not a straight weight either, the vII's provide a thickness in the oil and they dont thin out like a straight weight does under heat.
I was totally shocked, being cold 50 to 60 degree temps this oil thinned out that much during a ride to kerosene thinness.
But what I dont know, if a Pure oil molecule with a straight weight even though far thinner at 200 degree temps, provides the same protection level as a thicker VII molecule?
Maybe some oil engineers can chime in
I was totally shocked, being cold 50 to 60 degree temps this oil thinned out that much during a ride to kerosene thinness.
But what I dont know, if a Pure oil molecule with a straight weight even though far thinner at 200 degree temps, provides the same protection level as a thicker VII molecule?
Maybe some oil engineers can chime in
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By the way Sunruh, Id never been much of a castrol GT guy, but for years Id hear is was decent oil. I ran it both in my trck and the wifes car one time, and I had hardened plaque on both dipsticks. Never again, that [censored] is full of wax
He tests the oil in a motor that is notoriously hard on oil.
Doing this allows for a direct real world comparisons of different oils after hours of abuse.
Some oils do well other don't. This is what the test finds determines.
Most sportbike engines are not as hard on oil and his mix master so real world being if the oil holds up well in his tests it will certainly hold up in applications that are less oil intensive.
There are lot's of people out there claiming some of the motorcycle oils claims/tests by manufactures are [censored]. This testing helps clear some of that up.
Doing this allows for a direct real world comparisons of different oils after hours of abuse.
Some oils do well other don't. This is what the test finds determines.
Most sportbike engines are not as hard on oil and his mix master so real world being if the oil holds up well in his tests it will certainly hold up in applications that are less oil intensive.
There are lot's of people out there claiming some of the motorcycle oils claims/tests by manufactures are [censored]. This testing helps clear some of that up.
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