Ravenol Cost?

[TomYoung]

It's great oil and always has been pricey. Please give us information on your application, as I would want to know that the 5 quart jug of Quaker State Full Syn from Amazon is not going to solve your problem.

 

[chris719]

They aren’t buying basestocks. They get feedstocks, which Shell does indeed supply from Pearl production. I had in fact read some shell promotional literature on that just recently and can try to find it (it was on a shell website somewhere).

Bigger point, same as just made - with all the excellent boutique oil makers in the US, Ravenol has a really difficult sell and a severe economic disadvantage. I have a high regard for their products, but absolutely 0 reason to pay a premium for them over other equal options.

Are you sure a company as small as Ravenol is refining GTL to PAO? Why would they do this when they can just buy it from XOM like everyone else? Volume would be the normal answer to a question like that I'd assume... but their volumes can't be that high.

 

[OVERKILL]

They aren’t buying basestocks. They get feedstocks, which Shell does indeed supply from Pearl production. I had in fact read some shell promotional literature on that just recently and can try to find it (it was on a shell website somewhere).

I would love to see that. Even XOM is buying basestocks from Shell (and vice-versa), but it's also quite likely that ExxonMobil is buying ethane feedstock from Shell and using it to make PAO. You claimed earlier that they (Ravenol) "further refined" what they bought from Shell, so they are what, buying ethane, using it as a feedstock for ethylene, and then producing their own PAO? That seems unlikely. If that were in fact the case, how is that different than @chris719's statement that they use PAO?

You stated initially:

Sources say a large part of their base stock comes from GTL from Pearl.

So which is it? Because now you are saying they are NOT buying basestocks, but rather feedstocks, which contradicts this statement.

You are a bit all over the map here.

If Ravenol, or their parent company, has a refinery, we should be able to locate it.
Their main facility in Germany is typical of a blending operation, showing totes outside:

In this video they mention using high visc PAO as a VM (which HPL, Driven and Mobil do as well, hence mPAO), as well as esters:


Note they make no mention of actually producing the PAO.

In comparison, this is an XOM Chemical facility that makes PAO:

And this is what their Texas facility looks like:

A little digging unearthed this, which is the parent company of Ravenol and Deutsche Ölwerke Lubmin GmbH (which produces some Ravenol products and private label stuff):
Synto Holding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Deutsche Ölwerke Lubmin GmbH website:
News - Deutsche Ölwerke Lubmin English (dol-oil.de)

And this PDF:
DOL-Pressemitteilung_20200813_ENG.pdf (dol-oil.de)

which notes:

Since the groundbreaking ceremony and the opening of the plant in 2012/2013, this company – which is part of the RAVENOL Group – has consistently continued to grow. Following an expansion to include a new warehouse and logistics hall in 2017/2018, the latest large investment is now being made – additional storage tanks for base oils have been successfully set up and the ship unloader has been fully commissioned. Shipping company Unibaltic was selected to transport the first delivery of base oils. The company’s “Amaranth” tanker for IMO Types II and III is specially designed for transporting petrochemical products, with a length of 109 metres and a width of 17 metres. The total load-bearing capacity of this ship is more than 6,400 tonnes and is therefore equivalent to the amount delivered by around 300 tank trucks. With the new ship unloader, raw materials arriving by sea are directly pumped into the existing base oil storage facility consisting of several tanks via an intelligently integrated pipeline bridge.

And:

From the delivery of base oils - mostly by ship in the industrial port of Lubmin - through the individual design and production of high-quality lubricants to marketing - on an area of significantly more than 50,000 m², all production facilities are combined for a complete production cycle.

So they are definitely having base oils delivered. There is no mention of any sort of production beyond fully formulated lubricants.

This is that facility:

Bigger point, same as just made - with all the excellent boutique oil makers in the US, Ravenol has a really difficult sell and a severe economic disadvantage. I have a high regard for their products, but absolutely 0 reason to pay a premium for them over other equal options.

I've purchased their products as well, was running their SSL 0W-40 prior to switching to HPL. In the US in particular, with excellent products available from large companies like XOM (M1 FS 0W-40 for example) with the same approvals, it makes it pretty hard to justify spending so much more.

 

[chris719]

I've purchased their products as well, was running their SSL 0W-40 prior to switching to HPL. In the US in particular, with excellent products available from large companies like XOM (M1 FS 0W-40 for example) with the same approvals, it makes it pretty hard to justify spending so much more.

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible for VMP/REP to be better than M1 ESP 5W-30 and VST/RUP to be better than M1 0W-40 regarding wear protection alone, but we have no idea and I'm not going to wait months for Blauparts to run out of API SN VST to get the SP formulation. I'm guessing the difference is academic either way.

 

[CleverUserName]

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible for VMP/REP to be better than M1 ESP 5W-30 and VST/RUP to be better than M1 0W-40 regarding wear protection alone, but we have no idea and I'm not going to wait months for Blauparts to run out of API SN VST to get the SP formulation. I'm guessing the difference is academic either way.

The VST, REP and RUP are all their USVO formulas which don’t use VIIs. So they “may” reduce shearing better than others if you have an engine known to shear oils.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The VST, REP and RUP are all their USVO formulas which don’t use VIIs. So they “may” reduce shearing better than others if you have an engine known to shear oils.

Not so fast… DXG uses the same USVO and it was more than just a little out of grade at just a touch over 6k for me. Unfortunately, using Blackstone back then prevented knowing how much was due to shear and how much was due to fuel.

However, I recall Ravenol’s product pages with USVO says this:

Due to the USVO®technology we achieve an extremely high viscosity stability. We avoid the disadvantages of polymeric viscosity improvers while taking advantage of them. This improves engine protection, performance, engine cleanliness and oil drain intervals. The USVO® technology makes it possible that the product has no shear losses during the entire change interval and is extremely stable to oxidation. This unique technology helps oil lubricate faster, thereby minimizing friction while keeping the engine clean and efficient.

and, while not an oil formulator, I’m no dummy even though I sometimes act like one… but “taking advantage of them (polymeric viscosity improvers)” sure sounds like they’re using VIIs even with USVO.

Got any documentation that shows there’s no VIIs, or was that just a WAG on your part?

 

[OVERKILL]

The VST, REP and RUP are all their USVO formulas which don’t use VIIs. So they “may” reduce shearing better than others if you have an engine known to shear oils.

Not so fast… DXG uses the same USVO and it was more than just a little out of grade at just a touch over 6k for me. Unfortunately, using Blackstone back then prevented knowing how much was due to shear and how much was due to fuel.

However, I recall Ravenol’s product pages with USVO says this:

and, while not an oil formulator, I’m no dummy even though I sometimes act like one… but “taking advantage of them (polymeric viscosity improvers)” sure sounds like they’re using VIIs even with USVO.

Got any documentation that shows there’s no VIIs, or was that just a WAG on your part?

If you watch the video I linked, they note that they try to avoid VII's where possible, by using mPAO. But, they do use VII's when necessary. The USVO formulas are not VII-free, the approach of USVO is to simply avoid using as much VII as they can.

 

[buster]

I would have full confidence using their oils. One thing about them that they do have going for them is they are approved, if that matters to you. As I said earlier with so many great options available here, it's just not worth it.

 

[CleverUserName]

I read this description as Ravenol claiming no VII. I guess it could be written intentionally vague as to make someone think there isn’t any added. There is a fine line between being evasive and misleading.

If you watch the video I linked, they note that they try to avoid VII's where possible, by using mPAO. But, they do use VII's when necessary. The USVO formulas are not VII-free, the approach of USVO is to simply avoid using as much VII as they can.

Not so fast… DXG uses the same USVO and it was more than just a little out of grade at just a touch over 6k for me. Unfortunately, using Blackstone back then prevented knowing how much was due to shear and how much was due to fuel.

However, I recall Ravenol’s product pages with USVO says this:

and, while not an oil formulator, I’m no dummy even though I sometimes act like one… but “taking advantage of them (polymeric viscosity improvers)” sure sounds like they’re using VIIs even with USVO.

Got any documentation that shows there’s no VIIs, or was that just a WAG on your part?

 

[OVERKILL]

I read this description as Ravenol claiming no VII. I guess it could be written intentionally vague as to make someone think there isn’t any added. There is a fine line between being evasive and misleading.

View attachment 183008

Totally see how that could be misleading, but the middle bit spells it out:
"RAVENOL avoids the drawbacks of VI improvers and where necessary, leverages their benefits, through the advanced development of USVO Technology"

Which is consistent with the video.

 

[medunko]

It’s pure marketing sucess story , nice bootlles, website and claiming there oils are Something very special. In America you have Mobil 1, amsoil , red line etc all these producers/benders have proven history and Nice looking voa/uoa (results).

 

[chris719]

It’s pure marketing sucess story , nice bootlles, website and claiming there oils are Something very special. In America you have Mobil 1, amsoil , red line etc all these producers/benders have proven history and Nice looking voa/uoa (results).

Those oils are low VII, a lot of PAO and have actual approvals. You can see that from plugging numbers into Gokhan’s HTFS spreadsheet or by looking at the high HTHS vs KV100 that seems to be typical for low VI oils. The approvals are the difference as Amsoil, Redline, etc lack these in their boutique lines. Mobil doesn’t offer very low VII oils at the moment, while HPL doesn’t have the approvals. So there is a niche they occupy at least even if most people won’t find it meaningful.