Funny this came up today. I was visiting my brother a few weeks ago and he lives in front of a community boat ramp. We were outside shooting the breeze when we noticed boat traffic backed up pretty badly so we walked over to see what was going on. People at that boat ramp have been the source of much comic relief. Sure enough there was a truck stuck on the boat ramp, gunning the engine, tires not spinning. After about an hour of trying everything they could think of they finally had an F-350 diesel hook to the front of his truck and pull him and the boat up the ramp. The rig in question: new model Dodge 2500 SRW Hemi towing a 27 foot Grady White. Traction control was my first thought but never got a chance to talk to the owner.
Ram 3500: Gas vs. Diesel Towing
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Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Sounds like for some reason the transmission was going into limp mode.. But in a new vehicle like that it's highly unlikely but that's my guess.
Overheating will put a new vehicle in limp mode. I have no idea if this vehicle has such an overheat/limp mode. If it does it seems like a likely explanation, but something on the dashboard should flash, shouldn't it?
Sounds like for some reason the transmission was going into limp mode.. But in a new vehicle like that it's highly unlikely but that's my guess.
Overheating will put a new vehicle in limp mode. I have no idea if this vehicle has such an overheat/limp mode. If it does it seems like a likely explanation, but something on the dashboard should flash, shouldn't it?
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Traction control seems to fit the facts of the story. If the throttle is opened by a motor, instead of directly by a cable connected to the gas pedal, maybe the computer was intervening and refusing to open the throttle. The driver could push the pedal all the way down, but the throttle would only open as far as the computer commands.
Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Traction control seems to fit the facts of the story. If the throttle is opened by a motor, instead of directly by a cable connected to the gas pedal, maybe the computer was intervening and refusing to open the throttle. The driver could push the pedal all the way down, but the throttle would only open as far as the computer commands.
ls1mike
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Traction control seems to fit the facts of the story. If the throttle is opened by a motor, instead of directly by a cable connected to the gas pedal, maybe the computer was intervening and refusing to open the throttle. The driver could push the pedal all the way down, but the throttle would only open as far as the computer commands.
I tend to agree. I have a 2002 315HP/345FT/LBS of torque 3/4 ton 2WD gasser. I have towed boats ramps and have 20,000 miles pulling my current 32 foot 7500 lbs travel trailer with no issues. Sounds like operator error, traction control, or something wrong with the truck. My truck? No traction control and throttle with a cable.
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Traction control seems to fit the facts of the story. If the throttle is opened by a motor, instead of directly by a cable connected to the gas pedal, maybe the computer was intervening and refusing to open the throttle. The driver could push the pedal all the way down, but the throttle would only open as far as the computer commands.
I tend to agree. I have a 2002 315HP/345FT/LBS of torque 3/4 ton 2WD gasser. I have towed boats ramps and have 20,000 miles pulling my current 32 foot 7500 lbs travel trailer with no issues. Sounds like operator error, traction control, or something wrong with the truck. My truck? No traction control and throttle with a cable.
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Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Traction control seems to fit the facts of the story. If the throttle is opened by a motor, instead of directly by a cable connected to the gas pedal, maybe the computer was intervening and refusing to open the throttle. The driver could push the pedal all the way down, but the throttle would only open as far as the computer commands.
I tend to agree. I have a 2002 315HP/345FT/LBS of torque 3/4 ton 2WD gasser. I have towed boats ramps and have 20,000 miles pulling my current 32 foot 7500 lbs travel trailer with no issues. Sounds like operator error, traction control, or something wrong with the truck. My truck? No traction control and throttle with a cable.
I miss throttle with a cable, sometimes the computerized stuff really sucks, not responsive at all. When off-road with my grandmother's Trailblazer I have to remember to turn off traction control because when going up a slick dirt hill it'll basically turn off the throttle since it senses slip, which can be dangerous!
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: c502cid
Traction control issues is my bet. My 2010 traction control is horribly intrusive cutting power. Even if you shut it off, it wont go completely off (according to the owners manual). The traction control system, and the issues I've had with bad wheel sensors is one reason I will not be sad when it's time to let the truck go.
Traction control seems to fit the facts of the story. If the throttle is opened by a motor, instead of directly by a cable connected to the gas pedal, maybe the computer was intervening and refusing to open the throttle. The driver could push the pedal all the way down, but the throttle would only open as far as the computer commands.
I tend to agree. I have a 2002 315HP/345FT/LBS of torque 3/4 ton 2WD gasser. I have towed boats ramps and have 20,000 miles pulling my current 32 foot 7500 lbs travel trailer with no issues. Sounds like operator error, traction control, or something wrong with the truck. My truck? No traction control and throttle with a cable.
I miss throttle with a cable, sometimes the computerized stuff really sucks, not responsive at all. When off-road with my grandmother's Trailblazer I have to remember to turn off traction control because when going up a slick dirt hill it'll basically turn off the throttle since it senses slip, which can be dangerous!
Assuming he wasn't spinning the tires, something was very, very wrong with that truck. It might need to rev a little higher than the diesel to get moving, but if yours pulled it out effortlessly in 2hi and his wouldn't move then either the trans was slipping or something was holding it back.
If it seems mechanically okay, then it's probably the traction control being really dumb. I know that if I put a heavy trailer behind the Jeep and laid into it hard in 4lo on a wet boat ramp, the end result would be a combination of forward motion and lots of tire smoke.
If it seems mechanically okay, then it's probably the traction control being really dumb. I know that if I put a heavy trailer behind the Jeep and laid into it hard in 4lo on a wet boat ramp, the end result would be a combination of forward motion and lots of tire smoke.
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I'm surprised my boat weighs around 10k pounds with the trailer and I tow it with a Dodge 3500 rack body dually 4x4, which is gas. Never had issues, never needed 4wd it always pulled it out no problem.
Trucks also 12 years old so its probably down 100hp on the new one.
Something must have been wrong with the truck. I wonder if the traction control for whatever reason was acting up and killing the power? The 2013 if it has the 6.4 Hemi has well over 400hp and 400 ft pounds, more than enough to haul 10k pounds or in that case spin a drive shaft out of it.
Trucks also 12 years old so its probably down 100hp on the new one.
Something must have been wrong with the truck. I wonder if the traction control for whatever reason was acting up and killing the power? The 2013 if it has the 6.4 Hemi has well over 400hp and 400 ft pounds, more than enough to haul 10k pounds or in that case spin a drive shaft out of it.
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
The Hemi should have had enough torque to pull it up the ramp. Even if it only puts out 300 ft*lbs of torque, there is the advantage of torque multiplication through the drivetrain:
2x for torque converter stall torque ratio
3.5x for 1st gear reduction
2x for transfer case low range
3.55x for axle ratio
Multiply it all together, and there should have been 14910 ft*lbs available to turn the wheels. Something must be seriously wrong somewhere.
This is a case where a run on a chassis dyno may actually be a useful diagnostic.
The rear axle is probably 3.90 or lower. The rack body I use I think has a 4.52 or something like that in the diff.
However a stock 2007 Cummins is probably not to far off from peak torque of the 2013 Hemi 6.4.
The 2007 stock is 350/650
2013 stock is 410/429
Both are enough HP to move that load, the only difference is the diesel can do it at a lower RPM.
The Hemi should have had enough torque to pull it up the ramp. Even if it only puts out 300 ft*lbs of torque, there is the advantage of torque multiplication through the drivetrain:
2x for torque converter stall torque ratio
3.5x for 1st gear reduction
2x for transfer case low range
3.55x for axle ratio
Multiply it all together, and there should have been 14910 ft*lbs available to turn the wheels. Something must be seriously wrong somewhere.
This is a case where a run on a chassis dyno may actually be a useful diagnostic.
The rear axle is probably 3.90 or lower. The rack body I use I think has a 4.52 or something like that in the diff.
However a stock 2007 Cummins is probably not to far off from peak torque of the 2013 Hemi 6.4.
The 2007 stock is 350/650
2013 stock is 410/429
Both are enough HP to move that load, the only difference is the diesel can do it at a lower RPM.
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I just remember what happened to my nephew.
He had an 18' bow rider and towed it with a 4cyl Toyota.
He was 19 at this time
He put the boat in the water and paddled it over to the loading dock while he parked the truck.
The lot was kind of crowded, so it took him some time to park and get back to the boat.
When he did get back, he realized he had forgot to drain plug in the boat and it was 1/4 full of water.
Running back, he got his truck and trailer to pull the boat back out. But the boat was very low in the water, so much so, he had to submerge the trailer and half the truck in order to get the trailer under the boat.
Then he had to pull the half filled boat out!
He did manage it, over about 20 minutes. But it was hard on his clutch, and wheelspin was likely pumping more water IN the boat was could drain out.
He never thought to jump in the boat, insert the plug and just bail.
He had an 18' bow rider and towed it with a 4cyl Toyota.
He was 19 at this time
He put the boat in the water and paddled it over to the loading dock while he parked the truck.
The lot was kind of crowded, so it took him some time to park and get back to the boat.
When he did get back, he realized he had forgot to drain plug in the boat and it was 1/4 full of water.
Running back, he got his truck and trailer to pull the boat back out. But the boat was very low in the water, so much so, he had to submerge the trailer and half the truck in order to get the trailer under the boat.
Then he had to pull the half filled boat out!
He did manage it, over about 20 minutes. But it was hard on his clutch, and wheelspin was likely pumping more water IN the boat was could drain out.
He never thought to jump in the boat, insert the plug and just bail.
Traction control had to either be cutting power or there is something wrong with the truck.
My 99 chev was hooked up to my forklift trying to extract it. Dry pavement. I roasted all 4 tires and I wasn't even in low range.
And that truck easily has 100hp/tq less than an hd hemi.
Good to know though.
My 04 ram would roast all 4 too. Never tried it my new one though.
My 99 chev was hooked up to my forklift trying to extract it. Dry pavement. I roasted all 4 tires and I wasn't even in low range.
And that truck easily has 100hp/tq less than an hd hemi.
Good to know though.
My 04 ram would roast all 4 too. Never tried it my new one though.
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Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
I've experienced this with a number of late model Chevys and Dodges trying to start very heavy loads. No explanation other than extraordinarily poor engineering, in one way or another.
It seems fairly obvious that this is far from typical behavior for any major brand's 3500 heavy duty awd truck...
I've experienced this with a number of late model Chevys and Dodges trying to start very heavy loads. No explanation other than extraordinarily poor engineering, in one way or another.
It seems fairly obvious that this is far from typical behavior for any major brand's 3500 heavy duty awd truck...
Is this one of those drive by wire throttle body with torque limiting software?
Lol. The brake was definitely not on. I'm not even sure modern vehicles do that. Most seem to automatically disengage if left on, but this one wasn't. One of the first things I check before starting a pull.
Rest is up in the air, I guess. I really hope Dodge isn't stupid enough to make a truck with traction control that operates in 4LO.
Rest is up in the air, I guess. I really hope Dodge isn't stupid enough to make a truck with traction control that operates in 4LO.
I can easily pull my 10,000 pound cruiser (signature) out of the lake with my half ton Silverado. Did it in 4 low the first time just to make sure, but have since just used 4 Hi, as it does it effortlessly. This is on a VERY steep and long ramp. Never a problem. I even did it in the rain once.
I agree with those who think the gas-powered Ram 3500 has some kind of problem with it. The 29" Tiara with trailer is a fairly heavy load, probably up around 12,000 lbs. But a Ram 3500 in 4-low should be able to pull a 24,000 trailer up a steep hill, at least for a short distance. As much as I like my Cummins, I know the Hemi-powered Rams are no slouch in the power department. In the 2013 model year I think the 5.7L Hemi puts out 400 ft-lbs of torque. You should have been able to pull that trailer up the boat ramp in 4-high with no problem.
One problem I've seen at boat launch areas is sometimes you get an area where the concrete ramp ends and drops off a bit, which can trap a trailer wheel and making it almost impossible to pull out. Maybe when the guy relaunched the boat and you backed the trailer into the water with your Ram, you were in a slightly different location on the ramp and had a smoother surface for the trailer tires coming out of the water. Just a thought.
One problem I've seen at boat launch areas is sometimes you get an area where the concrete ramp ends and drops off a bit, which can trap a trailer wheel and making it almost impossible to pull out. Maybe when the guy relaunched the boat and you backed the trailer into the water with your Ram, you were in a slightly different location on the ramp and had a smoother surface for the trailer tires coming out of the water. Just a thought.
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