r12freon questions

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP

BTW, any shop can still service/refill R12. They just charge a LOT of money vs the new stuff, which is not as cold...


Any shop is not correct. Any shop that still has a tank of R12 can still service/refill. Many shops don't have any R12 anymore.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Putting aside the ozone depleting theory, R12 was the cat's meow. It is lower in toxicity than R134a, doesn't leak out of systems as easy, easier to detect leakage, and used mineral oil for compressor lubricant which is much better than the moisture asorbing PAG commonly used with R134a. And on top of all that, it is a more efficient refrigerant than R134a.

Systems use to commonly hold 2-3 lbs of it. And it was super cheap. You didnt have to worry about recovering it and paying for the cost of recovery machines. That made AC service and repair much more costly. Now they're switching to a new refrigerant. When will it end?

That said, I've had good results converting R!@ systems to R134a particularly GM models. There is going to be some loss in performance with R134a. It doesn't even work quite as good when the system is designed for it.



I agree!

I have two vehicles that call for R12 and still have and use R12. A retrofit is OK but IMO nothing beats R12 for keeping you cool in the summer.

 

[exranger06]

I converted my Accord to R134a last year. I get vent temps of about 42 degrees. It doesn't get much better than that.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
I converted my Accord to R134a last year. I get vent temps of about 42 degrees. It doesn't get much better than that.
There ya go, juggling the amount of refrigerant in the system does wonders for vent temp... Anything below 40* and the evaporator is probably going to freeze...

I converted my '93 Grand Marquis in '03 because the compressor caught fire internally and burned a hole in the suction line, which dumped the charge and put out the fire(small miracles eh?)... Since it needed a total flush, all components other than the evap and condenser were replaced and even though I had R-12 on hand, I went ahead and converted it using R-134 expansion valve and pressure switch for a '94... All other components including compressor was same for either system...

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP

So that means it must still be produced..

The small cans I buy from Yard sales and Craigslist are old stock. Often they have the old price tag on them from Thrifty or Zody's (usually $.87 or .99)etc. The 30lb cylinders we get from Pep boys have a date code on them. The last one I checked was filled in 1991.

Somewhere there must be a where house full of 30 pound jugs.

 

[bullwinkle]

Lots of people in the business bought EVERYTHING they could get their hands on when word came out of the EPA banning it. I don't have an automotive recovery machine myself (because I do commercial refrigeration), but I have a dedicated R-12 tank that everything good goes into. AFAIK the automotive machines just have filter/driers in them for recycling.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: eagle23
Last I heard, you don't need a license to buy it anymore.

Even if you do, the online test takes like 5-10 minutes and you instantly are "licensed". Did it myself some years ago.


I'd love a link to such an "easy" way to be AC certified. I work on aircraft with freon vapor cycle systems. Yet, all these years, I've been able to use my federal license to do the AC work. But, it's getting tougher to pass that off.

 

[wtd]

I have two 92 Cavaliers that my fiance and I use for commuter cars. Both originally came with R12. Her car I converted to R134a because I had not gotten my 609 certificate to buy R12 yet. When it came time to repair the AC in my car, I kept it R12. It is noticibly colder than the R134a converted car.

Some cars convert over okay but others do not. The other issue is that you have to pretty much guess what percentage of 134a to use in a coverted car to get optimal results.

Wayne

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: eagle23
Last I heard, you don't need a license to buy it anymore.

Even if you do, the online test takes like 5-10 minutes and you instantly are "licensed". Did it myself some years ago.


I'd love a link to such an "easy" way to be AC certified. I work on aircraft with freon vapor cycle systems. Yet, all these years, I've been able to use my federal license to do the AC work. But, it's getting tougher to pass that off.


I took my 609 AC cert online from MACS a few years ago and it was pretty easy and only cost about $20.

Wayne

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: wtd
I have two 92 Cavaliers that my fiance and I use for commuter cars. Both originally came with R12. Her car I converted to R134a because I had not gotten my 609 certificate to buy R12 yet. When it came time to repair the AC in my car, I kept it R12. It is noticibly colder than the R134a converted car.

Some cars convert over okay but others do not. The other issue is that you have to pretty much guess what percentage of 134a to use in a coverted car to get optimal results.

Wayne


80% of the R12 charge (by weight) usually works perfectly.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Lots of people in the business bought EVERYTHING they could get their hands on when word came out of the EPA banning it. I don't have an automotive recovery machine myself (because I do commercial refrigeration), but I have a dedicated R-12 tank that everything good goes into. AFAIK the automotive machines just have filter/driers in them for recycling.


We've been without R12 on this side of the world for a long time now and we get by OK.

I still have a few kg's left and I keep forgetting about it as the refrigeration world has moved on.

I haven't been a big user of R134a, using R404a for the last fifteen years in any new medium and low temp equipment, but that's all about to change as we are about to cop a federal carbon tax which will put the price of R404a through the roof, so the next c/room job I'm starting is an R134a system.

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: wtd
I have two 92 Cavaliers that my fiance and I use for commuter cars. Both originally came with R12. Her car I converted to R134a because I had not gotten my 609 certificate to buy R12 yet. When it came time to repair the AC in my car, I kept it R12. It is noticibly colder than the R134a converted car.

Some cars convert over okay but others do not. The other issue is that you have to pretty much guess what percentage of 134a to use in a coverted car to get optimal results.

Wayne


80% of the R12 charge (by weight) usually works perfectly.


I used the 80% figure when I converted the one Cavalier and it worked out okay but I like keeping a vehicle with what it came with if possible.

Wayne