Question for analist experts

[widman]

On CAT 3512 & 3516 natural gas engines I'm seeing what looks like a direct relationship between potassium contamination and nitration in UOA. Obviously the potassium shouldn't be in the oil. Since there is no water, glycol, or sodium, I think it is coming in the fuel.

My theory is that the natural gas is being dried with a potassium compound in glycol, but not completely removed before sending the gas along the pipeline.

On the samples with high potassium there is high nitration. No potassium, low nitration. But I can't find any articles to support this theory, nor am I a chemist to understand the effect of potassium on the nitration process.

Any thoughts? resources?

 

[Audi Junkie]

Umm. I'm lost.

 

[lewdwig]

Maybe the potassium is coming as a nitrate or nitrite? Can you get an exhaust condensate sample (maybe shortly after engine start up) to analyze?

 

[widman]

What difference does it make? and how can I analyze it?
I'll have another 19 samples this week and will see how it continues

 

[MolaKule]

Is this engine stationary or is it used in a big earthmoving rig?

Assuming no potassiums or nitrates in the oil, I think you guys two theories are on track.

Is there any possibility of coolant infusion?

 

[Steve S]

Is the oil thickening?

 

[widman]

No thickening. something like 18 stationary engines, running a city electric system for 150,000 people. Almost all run from 5 pm to 11 pm, then start getting shut off to match demand, some coming back on line around 6 am to run through the daytime demand.

Negative tests for coolant, and samples all vary at the same time, same way, same batch of oil.

 

[unDummy]

What is added to the pipeline to keep the insides of the pipe from rusting? to keep the valves in the pipeline working?

 

[widman]

In theory, valves are lubed with a teflon or other type of grease that is not soluble in hydrocarbons.

 

[MolaKule]

Check with the grease supplier of the pipeline valves.

If it is a Nye grease, then check with Nye and see if they use some kind of potassium and or nitrate component in their PFPE greases.

 

[widman]

Is there a simple test for potassium?

Pipelines are now run by the government. It might be easier to get top secret documents out of NASA.

Still worth asking, though.

 

[edhackett]

I can do the analysis for you. I can send some filters and holders to do some simple sampling. All you would need is a small vacuum pump on your end. You can sample the exhaust or the gas directly, if there is a simple and safe way to do so.

You would only be responsible for the costs of shipping the samples back to me.

If the time/hassle of shipping from the US and back from Bolivia are worth it to you, I can make it happen. PM for my email and we can work out the details if you are interested.

Ed

 

[widman]

I'll be back in Bolivia next week and will be visiting them and working on options. Thanks. I'll update you.

 

[widman]

Interesting possibilities.
Today I taught a 9 hour class in lubrication to the one of the gas/lp/fuel transport companies that run most of the pipelines in the country. Tomorrow is 9 hours of oil analysis and filtration....

But, I brought up my concern with the sample of high potassium and it's effect on the nitration. One of the guys suggested the potassium was probably leaked into the gas from the pipelines. That when there is a shutdown for maintenance it is done after pumping gas, not liquid. Then air gets into the pipes, condenses on the cold pipes, and draws out the impurities and all kinds of stuff, sending it all downstream when it comes back on line.

 

[GMorg]

Several Potassium compounds are used to process natural gas for carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, and arsenic removal, but they should not be in the final product.

 

[sbergman27]

Why didn't the BITOG profanity filter properly censor the subject line? There could be children reading this board!