Pumping fuel from this tank?

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SecondMonkey

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I want to buy one of these Blitz 15 gallon metal fuel tanks with a hose and nozzle. The problem is, it's gravity feed and I would like to attach some sort of pump or something to the output line.

So I was thinking...instead of a pump...what if I ran a compressed air line into the tank at about 10 PSI max, to force the fuel out the bottom? Would this be dangerous compressing the gasoline vapor like that? I'm thinking it would be LESS dangerous than something electric...and cheaper too. Am I wrong?
 
Is this an ASTM (May have the ASTM backwards) rated tank? If so there is a working pressure rating on a metal plate attached to the tank.
 
To me using compressed air to force out gasoline sounds like a recipe for a fire. Why not use a mechanical pump?

Also, if any rust ever develops on the bottom of the tank? Then all that junk will go right into your gas tank.

If I were doing it, I would elevate the tank a bit and use a pump to get the gas out. That way you could run it through a strainer and maybe some sort of filter to keep contaminates out of your car's tank.
 
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Originally Posted By: hate2work
Monkey~

Do not pressurize any gas tank/can that is not designed to be pressurized, period.

Read your own signature line, that should give you your answer.

I can use my own engineering experience and professional opinion that this STEEL tank is more than strong enough to contain 10 PSI. In fact, I'll risk my life on it. The tank weighs more than 30 lbs empty, and gasoline vapor alone can build up 10 PSI or more.

Please, let's keep this discussion about air pressurized gasoline and not the tank choice.

As for a mechanical pump...yeah, I could use that, but they're expensive. I already have an air source ready to go. I will definately have a filter in the output line.

What I'm worried about is the compressed air/fuel vapor combination. Is that really any more dangerous than a gas tank on a hot day full of vapor?

Please remember, I'm talking about 10 PSI here. That is extremely low pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: SaturnIonVue
Check this pump out: http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=3352

On sale with coupon around here for $11.99 might "work better" than compressed air.


Hmnm...that might work, although at 8oz per stroke that means 240 strokes for 15 gallons.

Basically, I'm lazy. I'm looking for more of a powered pump - but I'm thinking compressed air would be safer than electric due to the possibility of sparking.
 
10 psi is TINY amount of pressure. They wouldn't be allowed to sell the tank if it couldn't take it. gasoline vapour is highly explosive, but only if exposed to a spark, so you should be o.k.
just observe all of the usual precautions, engine turned off while refueling, no cigarettes or any other source of ignition.
 
Seems like the air should be safer than any electric pump. Sounds like a good idea......
I would think if a car radiator and hoses etc can handle 15-18 psi that tank should handle it no problem.
 
My first reaction was "Here's a Darwin award in the making."
grin2.gif
I was thinking of an ordinary automotive fuel tank.

But, eyeballing the tank you are talking about, it looks like it would take some pressure.

Depending on what you are doing with it, 1 or 2 psi is probably a better idea. No reason to use more than necessary.

One big problem with a pressurized tank is that if a fuel line or anything downstram fails, the pressure in the tank can empty the tank and there is no convenient way to turn it off.

Electric fuel pumps are very safe and don't move fuel unless you have power to them, a much safer way to do things.

Proceed with caution.

There is precedence. Old time 1920 1930 circle track cars used to have pressurized fuel tanks. You could see the driver or riding mechanic pumping them up every so often in old movies.
 
I bought a 7psi electric fuel pump from a parts store years ago - meant for carbureated cars...was an electronic reciprocating type. Paid less than $15, probably 15 years ago.

While on paper, 10 psi is a small number, the reality of what 10psi can do is larger. One leaky hose and the potential is that 10 gallons of fuel dumps in short order. Do you have kids that are *supposed* to walk the bikes through the garage? Are there external factors that influence the risk?

Not to say that 10 psi pressure-pushed tank would be difficult to engineer, but the risk increases. Probably explains why you can get a pressure-pushed lawn sprayer at Lowes but NOBODY sells a pressure-pushed mower can.

I say all this because if one can source a 10psi 12V fuel pump for $20, allowing a mounted dip tube for extraction, safety valve and inline filter, why not go that route?

Also, I have never seen 10 psi when opening a normal metal gas can... I don't think the natural vapor pressure of pump gas is nearly that high. Maybe a pound or two.

So... what happens if you are at 8 psi, and 1 gallon of fuel, and you crack the lid to refill? Out comes a LOT of fuel vapor... that's not good either.

Even if Honda built it I'd walk away from it. Sorry.

Mike
 
You might want to consider if there are any increased risks with your set up regarding static electricity. Watch this very interesting video.....at about the 1 minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdcPeW1XwKs


Are you going to take this tank to the station to fill it? To ensure grounding, the tank should not be filled while in your vehicle (carpet) or on plastic bed liner. Also, 15 gallons probably weighs 100 lbs. or more....can you lift that much?

Is that tank safe for transporting in a vehicle? While in an accident?

I think we take for granted how dangerous gasoline is.
 
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Monkey~

Do not pressurize any gas tank/can that is not designed to be pressurized, period.

Read your own signature line, that should give you your answer.

I can use my own engineering experience and professional opinion that this STEEL tank is more than strong enough to contain 10 PSI. In fact, I'll risk my life on it. The tank weighs more than 30 lbs empty, and gasoline vapor alone can build up 10 PSI or more.

Please, let's keep this discussion about air pressurized gasoline and not the tank choice.

As for a mechanical pump...yeah, I could use that, but they're expensive. I already have an air source ready to go. I will definately have a filter in the output line.

What I'm worried about is the compressed air/fuel vapor combination. Is that really any more dangerous than a gas tank on a hot day full of vapor?

Please remember, I'm talking about 10 PSI here. That is extremely low pressure.



Evidently you've never seen anyone that has been badly burned. If you had, you wouldn't be thinking about a DIY project involving gasoline and modification to a gravity fed tank that was not designed to hold pressure.

How much pressure do you think the hose can take? What about the connection to the tank? The nozzle? What if your pressure gets higher than 10 PSI? Too many variables...
 
Pressured air is a great idea [10 lbs is sure to be safe].
But at 10 lbs, Don't expect Niagara Falls.
Simply getting a larger output tube/orfice will be the best for flow. Consider Nascar or other race fuel filling techniques. they DUMP it in!
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Pressured air is a great idea [10 lbs is sure to be safe].
But at 10 lbs, Don't expect Niagara Falls.


I'm in agreement here. I don't even think our most corrupt Chinese knock off artist could downgrade material to this level of "at risk" pressure fatigue. I also think you're not going to see lots of flow.

Just for those no so exposed, all of the acids and caustics at our plant were pumped with air pressure. It was far more practical than using a pump that needed to be made entirely out of monel or some inert material. Naturally the bulk tank was rated for it ..by several safety mulitpliers.
 
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