Province of Alberta coal plant closure delayed by one year

[Snagglefoot]

Alberta has rapidly been shutting down coal plants, converting most to natural gas. The last coal plant ( with 3 units) is humming along at 800 MW. All the reports were that it was supposed to shut down in 2023 but delays pushed into 2024. Here is a graph of the closures and some interesting data on the details of the closure of the last plant. Enjoy.

 

[alarmguy]

Have electric rates gone up? I would assume with the variable price of NG they will?

 

[Snagglefoot]

What they did so far is ramp up the charges to make the $/kwhr of electricity coming from the plants less significant. I’ll try scare up a bill a buddy sent me. ( I’m still in BC for now).

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here are costs for 2023. They are in CDN dollars so multiply by 0.7 for US dollars.

 

[JWC86]

I’ll be honest, I’m completely naïve when it comes to energy cost across the provinces, but I wasn’t expecting Alberta to be one of the higher ones. Why would this be?

 

[fsdork]

Here's last month's bill from the Edmonton area:

 

[Snagglefoot]

I’ll be honest, I’m completely naïve when it comes to energy cost across the provinces, but I wasn’t expecting Alberta to be one of the higher ones. Why would this be?

Certainly one reason is Alberta has very little hydro electricity compared to BC, Manitoba and Quebec and has no nuclear derived power.

 

[OVERKILL]

Here's last month's bill from the Edmonton area:
View attachment 192038

Oooooof, here's my bill in Ontario:

2.57x the electricity for $7.00 less.

 

[JWC86]

Certainly one reason is Alberta has very little hydro electricity compared to BC, Manitoba and Quebec and has no nuclear derived power.

I figured that was part of it. I didn’t realize NG generation was so expensive thou comparatively.

I wonder if these large hydro electric projects are highly subsidized?

I visited the Site C **** construction a few times over the last couple years, it’s amazing how big of a project it is.

 

[OVERKILL]

I figured that was part of it. I didn’t realize NG generation was so expensive thou comparatively.

I wonder if these large hydro electric projects are highly subsidized?

I visited the Site C **** construction a few times over the last couple years, it’s amazing how big of a project it is.

And Site C is tiny compared to the James Bay project, lol.

With a public utility, the projects aren't "subsidized", because the utility's goal isn't to make money, it's to provide electricity at low cost to the ratepayer, that's the mission. So, these large CAPEX projects are debt on the books, that gets paid-down relatively slowly; more slowly than would be tolerated by a private company. This keeps rates low.

 

[JWC86]

So, these large CAPEX projects are debt on the books, that gets paid-down relatively slowly; more slowly than would be tolerated by a private company. This keeps rates low.

That makes sense, thanks.

Here is a bill with both power and gas from northern AB.
2500 Sq ft House, also heating a 22x24ft w/ 12ft ceiling garage.

 

[JWC86]

Here's last month's bill from the Edmonton area:
View attachment 192038

Comparing our bills it's interesting to note our rates per kWh are different with mine being less but your delivery charges are less, I'm guessing because your in a bigger city. In the end its a similar result.

 

[OVERKILL]

That makes sense, thanks.

Here is a bill with both power and gas from northern AB.
2500 Sq ft House, also heating a 22x24ft w/ 12ft ceiling garage.

View attachment 192044

Your delivery charges are absolutely insane

Here's a breakdown for June, which shows delivery and higher consumption than you:

Mind you, this is high density residential, which pays the lowest delivery fees in Ontario.

 

[fsdork]

Oooooof, here's my bill in Ontario:


2.57x the electricity for $7.00 less.

Tell me about it. On the bright side, I get to heat with gas here. Heating with electric baseboards on Vancouver Island was absolutely brutal.

 

[fsdork]

Comparing our bills it's interesting to note our rates per kWh are different with mine being less but your delivery charges are less, I'm guessing because your in a bigger city. In the end its a similar result.

I'm not sure what goes into the transmission cost math - whether it's relevant or not, I can see the plume from the Genesee plant in the distance.

 

[OVERKILL]

Tell me about it. On the bright side, I get to heat with gas here. Heating with electric baseboards on Vancouver Island was absolutely brutal.

I heat with both gas and electric, as I recently (early this year) got a heatpump installed, so my setup is hybrid.

 

[PandaBear]

This is why we shouldn't take these "mandatory carbon emission deadline" seriously. When things aren't working they get postponed. We will keep our gas cars until / unless EVs are really working out.

Remember EV1.

 

[Number_35]

Here are costs for 2023. They are in CDN dollars so multiply by 0.7 for US dollars.

View attachment 192037

I wonder if the "Canada Average" is simply a mean of the rates of the 10 provinces and three territories, or is it weighted by population?

Nunavut - 42,000

Ontario - 15,600,000

 

[MNgopher]

...

Mind you, this is high density residential, which pays the lowest delivery fees in Ontario.

Same story here - more dense, populated area and our delivery charge is relatively low. Our cabin property in the north woods has a very high delivery charge - but the area is significantly less dense, meaning the costs of the delivery system are spread out over far less customers. (For reference - two different suppliers at the different locations - one delivery cost is 3 times the cost of the other, with similar rates per kWh.)

 

[IndyIan]

I figured that was part of it. I didn’t realize NG generation was so expensive thou comparatively.

I wonder if these large hydro electric projects are highly subsidized?

I visited the Site C **** construction a few times over the last couple years, it’s amazing how big of a project it is.

The places with the highest rates are the ones that tend to be subsidized. Diesel generators are what most of Nunavut and NW territories run on, which gets trucked or shipped in from very far away. Also the more remote communities in any province run on diesel generators, so there it starts to make sense to do some wind turbines and batteries. Amazingly to me, lots of places below the treeline don't heat the majority of the homes with wood?