Pros and Cons of Diesel Oil in Gasoline Engine?
- Thread starter lancerplayer
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THe additives, and high rev, low rev bit is what gets you......
Hi,
IMHO the key to successfully using HDEOs in petrol engines is to ensure that they have dual diesel/petrol engine Quality ratings - API or ACEA or both - (a "mixed fleet" lubricant in the Commercial World) and a suitable viscosity
Some facts
1 - Porsche mandated HDEOs for their first engines (1950s - 356) and onwards to the 911/912 Series. They were the Factory fill
2 - Porsche maintained a "dual rated" lubricant requirement (PCMO) up until factory filling with a synthetic lubricant in 1992
3 - Variability in "M","S", "C" etc. series of engine lubricants in 1950-1960s caused me to do considerable research and testing on the use of HDEOs in petrol engines in this period. This was with excellent results in a wide variety of engine families - especially in Europe
4 - All VW and BMC engine families of the time performed best on an HDEO
5 - The minimum standard I used for many years in selecting HDEOs was the CAT Series 3 (and supplements) specification along with the MIL ratings and those from DB (I worked for Caltex-Chevron in Europe during this period)
6 - I have used HDEOs in many of my engines for over 50 years - always with excellent results
7 - I have used synthetic HDEOs in all of my Porsche engines and still do - and they are very widely used in the Porsche community (especially 8 - I use synthetic HDEOs at extended OCIs in a wide variety of friend's and family's engines that range from Toyota, Mazda etc thru GM and Ford to MB and Porsche
9 - The most professional Service Provider in this area (Australian Tropics) uses an HDEO exclusively as his service fill lubricant (Castrol RX Super) and has done so for a decade or two. Engines under warranty or with specific needs get what they require of course. He is BMW Factory trained and very well qualified. The range of vehicles maintained by him and his staff include Ferraris, Rollers, Maseratis, Porsches along with a wide spread of your average vehicles
10 - Many Porsche Service Providers use a 15W-40 HDEO in all
When using an HDEO in any petrol engine care must be given to the engine's lubricant requirement, the lubricant's specification as alluded to above, and to the viscosity requirements in relationship to the expected ambient temperature range of operation
As I stated earlier, Commercially available diesel engine lubricants (Commercial lubricants) that are not dual rated should NOT be used in petrol engines as excessive wear may be an outcome. This wear will most likely occur in the ring/piston/bore area
IMHO the key to successfully using HDEOs in petrol engines is to ensure that they have dual diesel/petrol engine Quality ratings - API or ACEA or both - (a "mixed fleet" lubricant in the Commercial World) and a suitable viscosity
Some facts
1 - Porsche mandated HDEOs for their first engines (1950s - 356) and onwards to the 911/912 Series. They were the Factory fill
2 - Porsche maintained a "dual rated" lubricant requirement (PCMO) up until factory filling with a synthetic lubricant in 1992
3 - Variability in "M","S", "C" etc. series of engine lubricants in 1950-1960s caused me to do considerable research and testing on the use of HDEOs in petrol engines in this period. This was with excellent results in a wide variety of engine families - especially in Europe
4 - All VW and BMC engine families of the time performed best on an HDEO
5 - The minimum standard I used for many years in selecting HDEOs was the CAT Series 3 (and supplements) specification along with the MIL ratings and those from DB (I worked for Caltex-Chevron in Europe during this period)
6 - I have used HDEOs in many of my engines for over 50 years - always with excellent results
7 - I have used synthetic HDEOs in all of my Porsche engines and still do - and they are very widely used in the Porsche community (especially 8 - I use synthetic HDEOs at extended OCIs in a wide variety of friend's and family's engines that range from Toyota, Mazda etc thru GM and Ford to MB and Porsche
9 - The most professional Service Provider in this area (Australian Tropics) uses an HDEO exclusively as his service fill lubricant (Castrol RX Super) and has done so for a decade or two. Engines under warranty or with specific needs get what they require of course. He is BMW Factory trained and very well qualified. The range of vehicles maintained by him and his staff include Ferraris, Rollers, Maseratis, Porsches along with a wide spread of your average vehicles
10 - Many Porsche Service Providers use a 15W-40 HDEO in all
When using an HDEO in any petrol engine care must be given to the engine's lubricant requirement, the lubricant's specification as alluded to above, and to the viscosity requirements in relationship to the expected ambient temperature range of operation
As I stated earlier, Commercially available diesel engine lubricants (Commercial lubricants) that are not dual rated should NOT be used in petrol engines as excessive wear may be an outcome. This wear will most likely occur in the ring/piston/bore area
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
IMHO the key to successfully using HDEOs in petrol engines is to ensure that they have dual diesel/petrol engine Quality ratings - API or ACEA or both - (a "mixed fleet" lubricant in the Commercial World) and a suitable viscosity
Some facts
1 - Porsche mandated HDEOs for their first engines (1950s - 356) and onwards to the 911/912 Series. They were the Factory fill
2 - Porsche maintained a "dual rated" lubricant requirement (PCMO) up until factory filling with a synthetic lubricant in 1992
3 - Variability in "M","S", "C" etc. series of engine lubricants in 1950-1960s caused me to do considerable research and testing on the use of HDEOs in petrol engines in this period. This was with excellent results in a wide variety of engine families - especially in Europe
4 - All VW and BMC engine families of the time performed best on an HDEO
5 - The minimum standard I used for many years in selecting HDEOs was the CAT Series 3 (and supplements) specification along with the MIL ratings and those from DB (I worked for Caltex-Chevron in Europe during this period)
6 - I have used HDEOs in many of my engines for over 50 years - always with excellent results
7 - I have used synthetic HDEOs in all of my Porsche engines and still do - and they are very widely used in the Porsche community (especially 8 - I use synthetic HDEOs at extended OCIs in a wide variety of friend's and family's engines that range from Toyota, Mazda etc thru GM and Ford to MB and Porsche
9 - The most professional Service Provider in this area (Australian Tropics) uses an HDEO exclusively as his service fill lubricant (Castrol RX Super) and has done so for a decade or two. Engines under warranty or with specific needs get what they require of course. He is BMW Factory trained and very well qualified. The range of vehicles maintained by him and his staff include Ferraris, Rollers, Maseratis, Porsches along with a wide spread of your average vehicles
10 - Many Porsche Service Providers use a 15W-40 HDEO in all
When using an HDEO in any petrol engine care must be given to the engine's lubricant requirement, the lubricant's specification as alluded to above, and to the viscosity requirements in relationship to the expected ambient temperature range of operation
As I stated earlier, Commercially available diesel engine lubricants (Commercial lubricants) that are not dual rated should NOT be used in petrol engines as excessive wear may be an outcome. This wear will most likely occur in the ring/piston/bore area
Pretty much says it all
Hi,
IMHO the key to successfully using HDEOs in petrol engines is to ensure that they have dual diesel/petrol engine Quality ratings - API or ACEA or both - (a "mixed fleet" lubricant in the Commercial World) and a suitable viscosity
Some facts
1 - Porsche mandated HDEOs for their first engines (1950s - 356) and onwards to the 911/912 Series. They were the Factory fill
2 - Porsche maintained a "dual rated" lubricant requirement (PCMO) up until factory filling with a synthetic lubricant in 1992
3 - Variability in "M","S", "C" etc. series of engine lubricants in 1950-1960s caused me to do considerable research and testing on the use of HDEOs in petrol engines in this period. This was with excellent results in a wide variety of engine families - especially in Europe
4 - All VW and BMC engine families of the time performed best on an HDEO
5 - The minimum standard I used for many years in selecting HDEOs was the CAT Series 3 (and supplements) specification along with the MIL ratings and those from DB (I worked for Caltex-Chevron in Europe during this period)
6 - I have used HDEOs in many of my engines for over 50 years - always with excellent results
7 - I have used synthetic HDEOs in all of my Porsche engines and still do - and they are very widely used in the Porsche community (especially 8 - I use synthetic HDEOs at extended OCIs in a wide variety of friend's and family's engines that range from Toyota, Mazda etc thru GM and Ford to MB and Porsche
9 - The most professional Service Provider in this area (Australian Tropics) uses an HDEO exclusively as his service fill lubricant (Castrol RX Super) and has done so for a decade or two. Engines under warranty or with specific needs get what they require of course. He is BMW Factory trained and very well qualified. The range of vehicles maintained by him and his staff include Ferraris, Rollers, Maseratis, Porsches along with a wide spread of your average vehicles
10 - Many Porsche Service Providers use a 15W-40 HDEO in all
When using an HDEO in any petrol engine care must be given to the engine's lubricant requirement, the lubricant's specification as alluded to above, and to the viscosity requirements in relationship to the expected ambient temperature range of operation
As I stated earlier, Commercially available diesel engine lubricants (Commercial lubricants) that are not dual rated should NOT be used in petrol engines as excessive wear may be an outcome. This wear will most likely occur in the ring/piston/bore area
Pretty much says it all
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
As I stated earlier, Commercially available diesel engine lubricants (Commercial lubricants) that are not dual rated should NOT be used in petrol engines as excessive wear may be an outcome. This wear will most likely occur in the ring/piston/bore area
Thanks for all of the valuable information and insight Doug. Much appreciated...
I'm very curious though: Why would a diesel only oil (i.e. NOT dual rated for use in gasoline engines) cause excess wear in the ring/piston/bore area? What is the reasoning behind the excess wear? You are definitely not the first person to make this statement, but I've never learned why this excess wear occurs.
Thanks again...
As I stated earlier, Commercially available diesel engine lubricants (Commercial lubricants) that are not dual rated should NOT be used in petrol engines as excessive wear may be an outcome. This wear will most likely occur in the ring/piston/bore area
Thanks for all of the valuable information and insight Doug. Much appreciated...
I'm very curious though: Why would a diesel only oil (i.e. NOT dual rated for use in gasoline engines) cause excess wear in the ring/piston/bore area? What is the reasoning behind the excess wear? You are definitely not the first person to make this statement, but I've never learned why this excess wear occurs.
Thanks again...
Hi,
il_signore97 - It has to do with the additive structure and especially those that may contribute to the high TBN levels in these products. The TBN can be very high in some products - up to 50!
As an example even DD state that "an oil with a TBN of 10 and an SA level of 1.2% mass is less desirable than an oil with the same TBN and 1% SA" It is the deposited SA levels that tend to cause wear - this may occur more in one engine family than another. Ring pack positioning etc all contribute to the end result
il_signore97 - It has to do with the additive structure and especially those that may contribute to the high TBN levels in these products. The TBN can be very high in some products - up to 50!
As an example even DD state that "an oil with a TBN of 10 and an SA level of 1.2% mass is less desirable than an oil with the same TBN and 1% SA" It is the deposited SA levels that tend to cause wear - this may occur more in one engine family than another. Ring pack positioning etc all contribute to the end result
^Thanks for the clarification Doug.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
IMHO the key to successfully using HDEOs in petrol engines is to ensure that they have dual diesel/petrol engine Quality ratings - API or ACEA or both - (a "mixed fleet" lubricant in the Commercial World) and a suitable viscosity
Some facts
1 - Porsche mandated HDEOs for their first engines (1950s - 356) and onwards to the 911/912 Series. They were the Factory fill
2 - Porsche maintained a "dual rated" lubricant requirement (PCMO) up until factory filling with a synthetic lubricant in 1992
...
Durn, I thought I was an early adapter when I used dual rated HDEOs in motorcycles in the mid-1980s.
Hi,
IMHO the key to successfully using HDEOs in petrol engines is to ensure that they have dual diesel/petrol engine Quality ratings - API or ACEA or both - (a "mixed fleet" lubricant in the Commercial World) and a suitable viscosity
Some facts
1 - Porsche mandated HDEOs for their first engines (1950s - 356) and onwards to the 911/912 Series. They were the Factory fill
2 - Porsche maintained a "dual rated" lubricant requirement (PCMO) up until factory filling with a synthetic lubricant in 1992
...
Durn, I thought I was an early adapter when I used dual rated HDEOs in motorcycles in the mid-1980s.
Doug, its an honor to have someone like you on our soil hehe
....i am even contemplating using Castrol Edge 10w60 in my Commodore 3.8 due to your recommendations and insight into the product, even though i never liked Castrol. You've cleared up my mind about the diesel, so definately Delo 400 Multigrade and Delvac MX(Repco brand diesel oil) is definately worth using. I have used them with good results in the past, and often recommend them to people, but some of the earlier info posted concerned me. Good stuff.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
il_signore97 - It has to do with the additive structure and especially those that may contribute to the high TBN levels in these products. The TBN can be very high in some products - up to 50!
As an example even DD state that "an oil with a TBN of 10 and an SA level of 1.2% mass is less desirable than an oil with the same TBN and 1% SA" It is the deposited SA levels that tend to cause wear - this may occur more in one engine family than another. Ring pack positioning etc all contribute to the end result
Doug: Could you clarify an acronym/abbreviation? SA?
Hi,
il_signore97 - It has to do with the additive structure and especially those that may contribute to the high TBN levels in these products. The TBN can be very high in some products - up to 50!
As an example even DD state that "an oil with a TBN of 10 and an SA level of 1.2% mass is less desirable than an oil with the same TBN and 1% SA" It is the deposited SA levels that tend to cause wear - this may occur more in one engine family than another. Ring pack positioning etc all contribute to the end result
Doug: Could you clarify an acronym/abbreviation? SA?
agreed, sulphated ash, something you dont want too high for petrol engines due to possible deposit formation ? This is maybe what he means what can cause the extra wear. These are limited for the SL/SM multi fleet type diesel oils.
diesel oil in a gasoline engine. That's just silly foolishness.
Originally Posted By: bigmanoncampus
diesel oil in a gasoline engine. That's just silly foolishness.
This is meant to be a play on the fact that diesel fuel is actually an oil, right?
diesel oil in a gasoline engine. That's just silly foolishness.
This is meant to be a play on the fact that diesel fuel is actually an oil, right?
Lots of good information in this thread.
Doug - you originally talked me into using TDT 5w-40 for the S52 in my '98 M3. After reading this thread, I think a UOA will help me determine if the engine is wearing properly with this oil. Do you still recommend that I stick with TDT or should I try and find the non-TDT Mobil 5w-40? I was also considering trying Rotella 5w-40.
-Nick
Doug - you originally talked me into using TDT 5w-40 for the S52 in my '98 M3. After reading this thread, I think a UOA will help me determine if the engine is wearing properly with this oil. Do you still recommend that I stick with TDT or should I try and find the non-TDT Mobil 5w-40? I was also considering trying Rotella 5w-40.
-Nick
Originally Posted By: jmac
my guess, SA= Sulphated Ash
Dang! Too simple, that! Wish I'da thought about it a little before forever engraving my lapse into hard stone of the digital continuum. Well, it isn't the first time. Won't be the last.
my guess, SA= Sulphated Ash
Dang! Too simple, that! Wish I'da thought about it a little before forever engraving my lapse into hard stone of the digital continuum. Well, it isn't the first time. Won't be the last.
Hi,
Nick - the TDT 5W-40 you are using is a great match to that engine. No need to change - changing to Rotella T 5W-40 will not produce any benefits for you
Hi Jim - Stick with it!
Nick - the TDT 5W-40 you are using is a great match to that engine. No need to change - changing to Rotella T 5W-40 will not produce any benefits for you
Hi Jim - Stick with it!
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Nick - the TDT 5W-40 you are using is a great match to that engine. No need to change - changing to Rotella T 5W-40 will not produce any benefits for you
Hi Jim - Stick with it!
TDT is rather hard to come by in the NW, especially since GI Joe's went out of business. I know that Walmart supposedly carries TDT, but every walmart I have been to in my state doesn't carry it, but they do carry Rotella
Hi,
Nick - the TDT 5W-40 you are using is a great match to that engine. No need to change - changing to Rotella T 5W-40 will not produce any benefits for you
Hi Jim - Stick with it!
TDT is rather hard to come by in the NW, especially since GI Joe's went out of business. I know that Walmart supposedly carries TDT, but every walmart I have been to in my state doesn't carry it, but they do carry Rotella
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