Oil color AFTER bypass filtration (diesel engine)

[Harcati]

I recently purchased and installed an AMSOIL oil bypass filtration kit on my 2006 F250 Powerstroke. The truck has about 22 thousand miles on it with no issues. I installed the kit because I've read that soot is the major cause of engine wear, and the filtration system is designed to remove soot from the oil.

I've put about 15 hours on the engine since installation. The vehicle spent most of those 15 hours at highway speed, and I always upidle if I'm sitting still for a protracted period.

Here's my question: Isn't the oil supposed to revert back to a browner, more "just out of the bottle" color after the bypass filtration process? Mine is still fairly black.

I should note that the oil had 3,000 miles on it before installation of the kit and was NOT drained; I just added additional oil to the filter canister (Shell Rotella 15-40 syn CJ4).

I know oil is traveling through the lines and filter of the system because the components are hot during operation.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Pablo]

The color of the oil is at the molecular level for the most part, not at the filterable soot size level, so to speak. In other words, the opaqueness is caused by chemical changes, and other very small contaminants not large soot.

 

[trik396]

Soot is something like what??? 1/100th of a micron? No filter can remove soot. As long as your oil is doing it's job of suspending the particles and not letting them clump into larger ones, you'll be fine. My Amsoil bypass is there to catch anything that could cause damage to a bearing that my stock filter won't stop. Soot ain't gonna hurt much as small as it is.
btw- my oil is black as coal right after an oil change.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: trik396
Soot is something like what??? 1/100th of a micron? No filter can remove soot.




Depends on how much you're willing to spend...

I beleive the Frantz and GCFs are "supposed" to be in the sub-micron range...and they will keep the oil visually cleaner longer...but they all turn black eventually.

I beleive I remember reading that its the particles larger than 5 micron that cause the issues...and the agglomerated particles.

 

[dnewton3]

Soot starts out sub-micron in size. No commercially available bypass filter can remove that, regardless of their claims.

Soot has the nasty habit of wanting to agglomerate (co-join) into bigger and bigger particles. The amount of soot (total quantity) can greatly effect the visual appearance of oil, but it's not near as concerning as the size of soot.

Oils have dispersants and detergents that help keep soot in control. Once those additives have been overwhelmed, the oil can no longer do it's job, and you're at risk. But until that point is reached, oil actually controls your engine "protection" much more than a bypass filter.

Bypass fitlers help keep the oil scrubbed of soot once the particles get up to 2um or 3um in size. The filters are extremely effective in doing so in this range. And because engine damage is typified in the 5um to 15um range, then you've hit nirvana at this point. The filters help keep the soot in oil circulation small enough that little to no damage occurs.

However, it is important to note that until soot get's up in size, it is actually oil that controls the soot. That's why frequent oil changes can have the same effect as bypass filtration regarding engine longevity.

So now hopefully you understand why oil looks "black" even with bypass filtration. The soot is still there, but it's small enough that it's not harming anything.

 

[Gary Allan]

If you've got enough money and room, I'll build you a filter (system) to keep it translucent as long as you want. You may have a 25 gallon sump in the process ..but ..

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
No commercially available bypass filter can remove that, regardless of their claims.



Ummm, depends on how deep your pockets are...there are filters that can do it, as Gary eluded to.

 

[mcrn]

Ok I have to ask this. It might be stupid but at what point do you start filtering out the additives of the oil? If it is possible to filter down to sub micron is there any risk that you are filtering too much?

 

[Gary Allan]

I think Schultz, of PALL Filtration, said that even a HUGE molecule would be very hard to filter out. Dissolved solids are way different than suspended solids. You're at the particle level.

 

[dnewton3]

I apologize, because I was being specific to the OP's question; he is using an Amsoil system on a PSD Ford. I was trying to answer in the context of the OP's point of view. It was wrong for me to state that there is nothing available at all.

Amsoil, GulfCoast, OilGuard, FS2500, etc; they all can get down to 2um-3um extremely well. But sub-micron? No way. Not with any consistency. Not for the costs of the targeted market, with any hope of decent life span. In Gary's famous "filtration triangle" (efficiency, life span, flow) you'd seriously effect life span by driving the filter to sub-micron capability, and the only way to off-set that would be to make the filter so huge that it would be impractical to ultilize for the PSD.

Yes, it's entirely possible to custom build a system that would nearly go "clincally" clean (= $$$$). But that is purpose built to special specs, not the commercially available stuff that we see for our light duty trucks.

My answer was targeted to the context of the OP's question. His oil is still dis-colored because his filter can't get all the sub-micron soot out until it co-joins and becomes large enough to be captured. It's not the only thing that dis-colors oil, but it's certainly one of the main contributors. It is also basically harmless, at that size range.

 

[Gary Allan]

No back pedaling now, dnewton3

Quote:
Yes, it's entirely possible to custom build a system that would nearly go "clincally" clean (= $$$$). But that is purpose built to special specs, not the commercially available stuff that we see for our light duty trucks.


Shhh!! Maybe we can get someone to try (lil help??)

Now we'll start off with 3 of these rigged in parallel

Type 304L Stainless Steel Body w/Brass Head

1" 20 4" x 23 1/2" 20"
4117K12 221.02

Then order .5um cotton wound 3.5" custom 20" filters (not bad, actually - you just get 8 of them to the case).

It will add about 12-15 gallons of oil to the sump.

If that doesn't work, we'll just add more

Of course, we can go to the deluxe model

An ultra-clean electropolished finish prevents bacteria and particles from adhering to the surface of this housing. The Type 316L stainless steel construction is ideal for liquid or gas filtration applications requiring pure, nonreactive surfaces.
Housings accept double open-end (DOE) and 222 O-ring (closed end and fin end) cartridges. An external ring assembly secures the body to the head with a single Buna-N O-ring for a positive seal. Housings have a 1/4" NPT female drain and use 1" ID x 2 1/2" to 2 7/8" OD cartridges in heights listed in the table. Connections: NPT female.

Pipe Max. Flow, O'all Uses Cartridge
Size gpm Dia. x Ht. Heights Each

1" 20 4 1/4" x 28" 20"
6882K2 533.23

For the cheapskates

Pipe Max. O'all Uses
Size Flow, gpm Dia. x Ht. Cartridge Heights Each
Hex-Bolt Style
Carbon Steel Body with Cast Iron Head

1" 20 4" x 23 3/4" 20"
43715K12 134.82

 

[dnewton3]

AWESOME! And so pratical!

I'll volunteer to put it on my Dmax.

However, so that my testimony is not tainted, I'll have to ask that someone else pay for all the components, installation, and service costs.

I don't want my opinion to be biased.

 

[Gary Allan]

I have one of these in a PALL canister that I salvaged from the closing plant. The unit was obsolete ..even Schultz from PALL could not wrap around the number (he helped me with fitler selection). Another member, Filter Guy, finally found someone who figured out the number.

It was used to filter air to a fine level of purity.

It worked just fine with 3.5" DOE 1um filters.

I imagine that the thing cost a grand when new.

 

[dnewton3]

I'll bet they're wicked good filters; have to be to justify a price tag like that.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I'll bet they're wicked good filters; have to be to justify a price tag like that.



Wicked good...

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I have one of these in a PALL canister that I salvaged from the closing plant. The unit was obsolete ..even Schultz from PALL could not wrap around the number (he helped me with fitler selection). Another member, Filter Guy, finally found someone who figured out the number.

It was used to filter air to a fine level of purity.

It worked just fine with 3.5" DOE 1um filters.

I imagine that the thing cost a grand when new.


What was your evaluation of what it did to the appearance of the oil?

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I didn't use it in a diesel.

It kept my oil clean ..but it also added about a gallon to the sump.

My use of it got stopped short for forced heat:cooling variable sump experiment with 0w-10 oil (Bruce's first offering of the stuff) ..which got derailed by the theft of the van.

I didn't get enough of a long term use out of it. I imagine that the cartridge life in my usage would have been over 20k. It's too big to be practical in anything that I have/had over the annual usage that I'd be able to put it through.

You probably recall my "McGyver'ing" on how I mounted it under the hood of my minivan.

..and to think ..it all started with filter bypass experiments just to find out when and how often they occur ..and I'm still arguing that one.

 

[deeter16317]

I'm only going to add that my GCF will clean black oil to clear for a short period when I change elements. The oil will shortly after start to turn back to black...probably as the fresh element loads with soot?? And that's a large (read: overkill) filter for a light truck...holds almost half of my normal sump.

The biggest bypass setup on any small truck I have heard of was two MG-750s on an older PowerStroke. I believe they held almost 10 gallons of oil alone??

As noted, the only way to determine if the bypass is working would be a particle count...visually, it won't look much different from pre-bypass runs.

 

[Newtonville]

Just a couple comments. It takes a tiny amount of soot to make oil black, so the continuous combustion process makes it tough to totally remove. Cold starts etc would add to the problem. Also it would take a long time to flush the accumulated soot out of every nook and cranny in an engine.

The Frantz, and other similar, TP filters claim 1/10 micron particle removal and 6 oz water. I believe them as they have been involved with this clean oil topic for about fifty years. I see no evidence they do not meet the claim.

 

[Steve S]

How does the T.P. hold water when it is saturated with oil?