"no silicate' antifreeze 4 japanese cars? a myth?

[edwardh1]

Nissan dealers about Antifreeze:
- Dealer one - I called. They said we use Nissan Antifreeze for warranty work and Shell for non warranty work. I looked up Shell - I do not think they make a silicate free antifreeze except a dredded DEXCOOL clone. The parts man had not heard of the silicate issue

- Dealer two - I went there. They Sold Nissan brand and a "no name" brand and said "OK to use "whatever" brand antifreeze. They Had not heard of the silicate isue. Their aftermarket brand was in a clean bottle, $8. the Nissan brand was in a dust covered bottle. i said "Don't sell much of this do you? - answer was Nope. $16.
the Nissan bottle said ok for all metals, long life and that it had no silicates, no amines, and no borates. No mention of DEXCOOL and no mention of OAT - organic acid technology.
Distributed by Nissan Motor Corp in Gardena Calif (does that mean it is made in the US?
If this antifreeze is truly not OAt technology, how do they get the silicates out of what sounds like regular antifreeze. It is called Long Life.

 

[slalom44]

Silicates are reportedly corrosive to aluminum. If the manufacturer says to use silicate-free coolant, I'd listen to them Toyota and Honda say the same thing. Here's some interesting reading: http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163467

 

[eljefino]

Silicates in antifreeze is like caffeine in soda-- you don't buy decaf soda (just caffeine-free) and you don't take the silica out of antifreeze; you simply never add it. Silica works fine IMHO but drops out after a couple of years and forms "sand" that eats up your water pump. It also "plates" around aluminum and perhaps Nissan has some tiny passage that can't stand the plating action.

Ethylene Glycol is the antifreeze part of coolant; Silica is an additive for corrosion protection. Other chemistry exists for the same purpose which is probably more expensive and therefore rarer. Check the ingredient list of Equilon Havoline heavy duty coolant at Big Lots; it's rated for long life in over-the-road diesel trucks and is supposed to be pretty good. $5/gal.

 

[eljefino]

web page

 

[oilrecovery2003]

I changed out my antifreeze in my Nissan Pathfinder about 3 year ago and put in Dex Cool. I change every year. Never a problem with the cooling system.

 

[Gebo]

I use Toyota Red in everything. $15/gal. 1.5 gal last 2 years. Hmmm... Counting distilled water that works out to about $12.50 per year for me.

I also change my brake fluid.....

 

[edwardh1]

eljefino
thanks for that link but they yak yak about GM and dexcool.
All these web pages seem to ignore the japanese "no silicates" recommendation.

i wonder if a lot of these organizations are stuck in the 80s whenmost stuff was GM?

 

[trey]

So do most foreign cars have alumimun radiators? Meaning silicate free antifreeze, probably just like my motorcycle.

 

[VaderSS]

Don't know about Nissan, but they are probably like Toyota...

 

[edwardh1]

the ingredients on the Nissan long life and the Toyota long life are identical, based on the "CAS" numbers on the above Toyota label in "ingredients"
wonder if same company makes them for Toy and Nissan?

 

[nick778]

I'd venture to say all the Japanese OEM coolants are sourced from the same OEM. They are the same exact chemistry except for differences in color/dye.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by edwardh1:
the ingredients on the Nissan long life and the Toyota long life are identical, based on the "CAS" numbers on the above Toyota label in "ingredients"
wonder if same company makes them for Toy and Nissan?

---

Honda Type II has the first three ingredients (plus water) in the same order. doesn't list the 4th, Hydrated Inorganic Salts 1310-58-3. 1st cousins but not identical twins.

My Peak conventional EG coolant bottle and the Honda bottle are identical except for the color and stick on label. They could have been made in the same mold. That's a real weak indicator, but it indicates that their bottles or at least their bottle blow molding tooling could have come from the same source.

****

 

[edwardh1]

xs650
what are the peak's ingredients?

peak has the global product (but is it Dexcool OAt stuff?)
Lots cheaper

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

---

Honda Type II has the first three ingredients (plus water) in the same order. doesn't list the 4th, Hydrated Inorganic Salts 1310-58-3.

---

Hmmm.... Sounds like Dexcool.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by edwardh1:
xs650
what are the peak's ingredients?

peak has the global product (but is it Dexcool OAt stuff?)
Lots cheaper

---

Peak Global Extended Life MSDS just lists the usual EG and Diethylene glycol plus less than 5% unspecified corrosion inhibitor. Not much help.
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/pk_global_msds.pdf

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by VaderSS:

quote:

---

Honda Type II has the first three ingredients (plus water) in the same order. doesn't list the 4th, Hydrated Inorganic Salts 1310-58-3.

---

Hmmm.... Sounds like Dexcool.

---

It's different organic salts, at least I think they are both organic salts. I think my wording was confusing, the Honda stuff doesn't have the 1310-58-3

The various MSDS sheets and jug labels give some clues, but since the ingredients vary bit according to source of information it's hard to make much out of those things.

 

[shortyb]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XS650:

The various MSDS sheets and jug labels give some clues, but since the ingredients vary bit according to source of information it's hard to make much out of those things.

---

Take a look here for some clarification on the additive differences between DexCool (OAT) and Toyota Long Life (hybrid).
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000007

 

[edwardh1]

amazng how the industry and the auto makers took something simple (antifreeze) and made it complicated.

I thik Chrysler and the Koreans also have their different antifreezes.

Anyone know what Jiffly Lube uses?

bet they top off a lot of OAT antifreeze with cheap green stuff, causing glop problems

 

[XS650]

I'll add some more to the confusion.

On the Chevron MSDS site:
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/msdsServer/controller?module=com.chevron.lubes.msds.bus.BusMSDSList

Chevron Delo Extended Life Coolant/Antifreeze:
The two glycols plus
Sodium 2-ethylhexanoate

And a new Dexcool for me....
Chevron DEX-COOL Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant
Has the two glycols plus
Potasium 2-ethylhexanoate

Havoline Dexcool (From their MSDS) also has Potasium 2-ethylhexanoate.

Prestone "GM Dexcool approved", they don't actually call it Dexcool!
has Sodium 2-ethylhexanoate plus another OAT ingredient that isn't in Dexcool.

Doing a little wild speculating here...GM was one of the pioneers in long life coolant, perhaps they screwed up a bit by using Potasium 2-ethylhexanoate. Could that be the actual that is the souce of the Dexcool problems that crop up if everything in the cooling system isn't just right?

 

[edwardh1]

gms initial design of dexcool that would clog when exposer to air was strange.
Almost like they never field tested it, or Havoline never field tested it.
But then I guess they did field test it - on consumers - cheaper quicker faster.