New Lawsuit Over E15 Fuel

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Artem

Its been proven that it only takes roughly 50hp or so to move a mid size car down the highway at 60mph. why in the world do we need that big --- V8 400hp Hemi burning all that extra fuel for no good reason?! when it can easily move the car at the same speed with only 2 cylinders working!


Less than that! I remember a magazine ad for the Ford LTD II (fox body) that claimed it needed 7 hp to cut the wind at 50 MPH!

This SULEV emissions stuff means virtually no NOx, meaning no lean burning to keep combustion temps down. This means 1990s cars and earlier, late 80s, are the pinnacle of efficiency. They also, IMO, have "just enough" safety gear.

My 2000 W-body buick century has the bloat: 3400 lbs. The previous generation A-body was only 2700! Yeah that extra 700 lbs makes it quieter inside and admittedly a nicer car. But even with a 4 speed automatic and 200 cc's less motor it gets worse MPG than my old 1992 Cutlass Ciera 3 speed!

 

[willix]

Just adding E10 to gasoline makes it burn 6.6% more fuel.

Adding E15 will make it an even 10% MPG loss.

Ethanol only complicates & slows the progression into more efficient cars.

 

[SwampDweller]

RClint, my 09 Accord Coupe gets 35 MPG on the highway now(STICK SHIFT/I4).

Agree with Willix,how is this helping fuel consumption. If I have to pump more and more fuel in to get from point A to point B. Then, reports I have read say it takes more than a gallon of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol.

 

[d00df00d]

It's not supposed to reduce fuel consumption. It's supposed to reduce petroleum consumption, as well as CO2 emissions.

At least, that's what the corn lobby tells the EPA.

 

[rclint]

Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
RClint, my 09 Accord Coupe gets 35 MPG on the highway now(STICK SHIFT/I4).

Agree with Willix,how is this helping fuel consumption. If I have to pump more and more fuel in to get from point A to point B. Then, reports I have read say it takes more than a gallon of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol.


I'm not calling anyone out that has a Accord that gets better mileage than mine, however I just can't squeeze anymore out of mine.. and most of it is highway miles. I also know that there will be differences of the same engine, year, one made after another when it comes to fuel economy. I had a 97 accord I4 auto that I actually hit 40 MPG on a couple times, and averaged 27-30 in town, and averaged 33 on the interstate. This current car I drive has been the worst been the worst Accord I have owned.. 02 2.3 I4 auto, the transmissions are known to be junk, other small problems like lighting on the steering controls, and clock backlight etc a popping noise that I think now may be the struts ?? still not sure, and I have replaced two engine mounts already.. However the engine will go 15k without any reduction in oil on the dipstick, it's a good engine it seems, I just wished it got better gas mileage.

Does your 09 have a timing chain ? That would be a treat for an Accord... I think next vehicle for myself will be a different make, etc and I have been driving a Accord for around 400k, and have also owned other Honda's before that.. Not happy with my current car at all.. and I'm not having any work done to the transmission which would be a waste of time it seems, when it goes it goes, I do try and baby it on the infamous 2nd gear slush shift.

 

[willix]

Natural gas would be feasible if you could gas up at home.

Electric power would be very clean/green but only if they build 50 to 100 nuclear plants around the US.

Currently electric cars are Coal powered.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: kballowe
Anyone remember when the Volkswagen Rabbit was available with a diesel engine? Those little cars got 50+ mpg....

50 mpg ...And would go 65mph if you buried your accelerator pedal into the firewall. 0-60 took about 20 seconds which was also the 1/4mile time.(to be fair, the national speed limit was only 55mph)

By comparison, the CRX hf and Civic CX only took 12 seconds to get to 60 and if you are feeling particularly brave, it'll go 100+mph. It got the same 50+mpg.


The Civc HX got high 30s city high 40s fwy.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: rclint
...

I would like to see a mid size to small sedan like the Honda Accord getting 35 MPG, that would be a great starting point.. This without any stupid hypermiling, or any other type of altered driving style..


It is called the ford fusion and no it doesn't require the hybrid. It is rated 34mpg hwy but when I have had some rentals, I got 37 mpg doing 5mph over the speed limit on business trips.

 

[Spazdog]

Quote:
I would like to see a mid size to small sedan like the Honda Accord getting 35 MPG, that would be a great starting point.. This without any stupid hypermiling, or any other type of altered driving style..


The current Accord is pretty much a full-size car by interior volume.

BUT, in 2004 Honda did promise that they would be making a car the size of an Accord (in '04) that would be able to get 50mpg without hybrid technology by 2014.

 

[willix]

Why would "they" reduce petroleum consumption mandated by law by engineering it to be less efficient?

Where is the logic?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: willix
Why would "they" reduce petroleum consumption mandated by law by engineering it to be less efficient?

Where is the logic?

They are addressing fuel economy by other means. All I said was that ethanol isn't one of them. Ethanol is about reducing CO2 and replacing petroleum-derived fuels with something else.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: willix
Why would "they" reduce petroleum consumption mandated by law by engineering it to be less efficient?

Where is the logic?

They are addressing fuel economy by other means. All I said was that ethanol isn't one of them. Ethanol is about reducing CO2 and replacing petroleum-derived fuels with something else.


at the cost of human health due to the decreased air quality associated with burning ethanol fuel.

 

[d00df00d]

Oh, I'm only talking about the original intent. Not gonna get into the actual effects.

 

[willix]

All these forces are working against each other. What a crock. We get to pay our tax dollars for this mistake.

Even Al Gore, out of the loop now and says ethanol is a huge mistake.

 

[Slick17601]

Even Al Gore has admitted ethanol is a farce....

 

[mikered30]

Ah [censored].

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Friday approved higher levels of corn-based ethanol in gasoline for cars and light-duty trucks made in the past decade.

The agency has decided that 15% ethanol in gasoline, known as E15, is safe for such vehicles made between 2001 and 2006. In October, it approved this blend -- higher than the 10% it previously allowed -- for cars and light-duty manufactured since 2007, but it postponed its use in older cars pending additional tests by the U.S. Department of Energy.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...or-older-cars/1


My manual says dont use over 10%.

 

[rshunter]

As long as it doesn't become a mandate, I don't see a lot of stations rushing to put this in their tanks.

I hope...

 

[Johnny]

Well, we on BITOG will just fix them. We will double our dose of MMO and TC-W3 we add to our fuel. Just who do they think there dealing with here?

 

[jdog]

whut are the going too doo if no one buys e15 ? and buy whatever else they can get

 

[SteveSRT8]

Ethanol is just another political football. Just as the government calls spending "investments" they will find a way to spin it that sounds good.

The facts are very different for anyone who takes the time to research it.