dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: -SyN-
Mr Newton: We all make choices and decisions each second of each day...Do I worry about what others think of my choices and decisions? ah No! If I had that much time on my hands I would feel pretty pathetic.
I just hate seeing people some what ridiculed for the choices they make on something as simple as the oil that they put in their auto... It's their Choice! It's their hard earned money going into their hard earned auto...Why worry about what they are doing? If they ask for an opinion? Give yours and leave it be...
This is not directed at anyone, I just think there are important things to worry about, besides how much **** payed for that qt or gallon of oil he is pouring in his auto...
You make excellent points. I concur whole-heartedly.
But, there is a flip-side to that observation of yours.
There are many times when some (certainly not all) people who use premium products have an air of superiority in their comments. They will often make claims with no basis of fact. I have long ago lost track of the times I've counted claimes of how "synthetics are better".
How many times have we read statments like: "Oil's cheap; motors are expensive. I'm using XYZ-PDQ brand oil because it's the best."?
Many people have zero frame of reference of what's required for safe, healthy operation of equipment. They make the false assumption that if some amount of something is good, then 2x or 3x of it must be "better" under all circumstances and conditions. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Most all people pick a lube (arbitrarily) based upon brand loyality, and try to cram that choice into an operational/maintenance plan, and want to call it "best". That is completely backwards from a logical approach. There is nothing "wrong" with doing it that way, but at that point those persons should admit it's completely emotional, and not based upon analysis. It makes no more sense to run a syn for normal 1x OCIs than it does to run dino for 5x OCIs; one is a huge waste and the other a huge risk. Media-based propogada (aka marketing) would have us believe that "12 seasons of boat hauling" can only be attained safely via the use of some synthetic. But the reality is that the lube lifecycle is predicated on more things that just a load occasionally hauled on weekends during one season of the year.
Yes, people have a right to make a choice and spend as they see fit. But when the profess how their choice is "better" with seemingly unlimited qualification or quantification, indicating that those who don't choose product XYZ-PQD are somehow not caring for thier equipment as well as others, that is the prolifereation of rhetoric and hype. I call that out where I see it. I challenge it.
There are individual opportunities for "best" because when one rightly defines the entire operational and maintenance plan, one can tailor the choices to specific boundries. But there is rarely, if ever, a "best" for all conditions.
When someone comes for advise, we should make sure to make clear our opionins versus the facts. I can direct people to countless hundreds of UOAs that show dino oils perform just as well as syns over "normal" OEM OCIs for the vast majority of operating scenarios. That's not opinion; those are facts that exist here on this site, and many others.
I can make direct, insightful comments because I, too, was a synthaholic many years ago. I thought synthetic was the answer to everything. Then, I began to educate myself on the benefits and limitations of synthetics. I realized that there is no one best answer for all situations, but there are "much better" choices for confined conditions. "Normal" operation and OEM OCIs do NOT call for synthetics. Just because one has the "right" to choose a syn, does not make it a "good" choice automatically. I recognize the individuals right to make choices, but that does not means I should sit by and allow rhetoric and mythology to prevail without challenging it.
Amsoil cut the cost of the OE HDEO product by 1/3, but cut the "benefit" of its use by 2/3, as contrasted to their other offerings. In my mind, that is not a "bargin"; you are getting way less for your money. Using Amsoil's OE in normal OCIs is a waste, but it's just not as big a waste as if you did the same with DEO or AME, or TDT or Delvac 1, etc.
Allow me to bring this full circle and quote myself from the first post I made in this thread, as it sums it up pretty well:
"I would contend that if one is going to OCI at the OEM intervals, there is little or no need for this product at all. But there are some syn junkies that just have to have syn, even Amsoil. This allows them the braggin' rights with less cost."
Folks, arguing over which syn might be "best" for a normal OCI is like debating which caliber is better between .308 and .30-'06. Both are fine hunting rounds, but they are in fact overkill for hunting squirell ...
Mr Newton: We all make choices and decisions each second of each day...Do I worry about what others think of my choices and decisions? ah No! If I had that much time on my hands I would feel pretty pathetic.
I just hate seeing people some what ridiculed for the choices they make on something as simple as the oil that they put in their auto... It's their Choice! It's their hard earned money going into their hard earned auto...Why worry about what they are doing? If they ask for an opinion? Give yours and leave it be...
This is not directed at anyone, I just think there are important things to worry about, besides how much **** payed for that qt or gallon of oil he is pouring in his auto...
You make excellent points. I concur whole-heartedly.
But, there is a flip-side to that observation of yours.
There are many times when some (certainly not all) people who use premium products have an air of superiority in their comments. They will often make claims with no basis of fact. I have long ago lost track of the times I've counted claimes of how "synthetics are better".
How many times have we read statments like: "Oil's cheap; motors are expensive. I'm using XYZ-PDQ brand oil because it's the best."?
Many people have zero frame of reference of what's required for safe, healthy operation of equipment. They make the false assumption that if some amount of something is good, then 2x or 3x of it must be "better" under all circumstances and conditions. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Most all people pick a lube (arbitrarily) based upon brand loyality, and try to cram that choice into an operational/maintenance plan, and want to call it "best". That is completely backwards from a logical approach. There is nothing "wrong" with doing it that way, but at that point those persons should admit it's completely emotional, and not based upon analysis. It makes no more sense to run a syn for normal 1x OCIs than it does to run dino for 5x OCIs; one is a huge waste and the other a huge risk. Media-based propogada (aka marketing) would have us believe that "12 seasons of boat hauling" can only be attained safely via the use of some synthetic. But the reality is that the lube lifecycle is predicated on more things that just a load occasionally hauled on weekends during one season of the year.
Yes, people have a right to make a choice and spend as they see fit. But when the profess how their choice is "better" with seemingly unlimited qualification or quantification, indicating that those who don't choose product XYZ-PQD are somehow not caring for thier equipment as well as others, that is the prolifereation of rhetoric and hype. I call that out where I see it. I challenge it.
There are individual opportunities for "best" because when one rightly defines the entire operational and maintenance plan, one can tailor the choices to specific boundries. But there is rarely, if ever, a "best" for all conditions.
When someone comes for advise, we should make sure to make clear our opionins versus the facts. I can direct people to countless hundreds of UOAs that show dino oils perform just as well as syns over "normal" OEM OCIs for the vast majority of operating scenarios. That's not opinion; those are facts that exist here on this site, and many others.
I can make direct, insightful comments because I, too, was a synthaholic many years ago. I thought synthetic was the answer to everything. Then, I began to educate myself on the benefits and limitations of synthetics. I realized that there is no one best answer for all situations, but there are "much better" choices for confined conditions. "Normal" operation and OEM OCIs do NOT call for synthetics. Just because one has the "right" to choose a syn, does not make it a "good" choice automatically. I recognize the individuals right to make choices, but that does not means I should sit by and allow rhetoric and mythology to prevail without challenging it.
Amsoil cut the cost of the OE HDEO product by 1/3, but cut the "benefit" of its use by 2/3, as contrasted to their other offerings. In my mind, that is not a "bargin"; you are getting way less for your money. Using Amsoil's OE in normal OCIs is a waste, but it's just not as big a waste as if you did the same with DEO or AME, or TDT or Delvac 1, etc.
Allow me to bring this full circle and quote myself from the first post I made in this thread, as it sums it up pretty well:
"I would contend that if one is going to OCI at the OEM intervals, there is little or no need for this product at all. But there are some syn junkies that just have to have syn, even Amsoil. This allows them the braggin' rights with less cost."
Folks, arguing over which syn might be "best" for a normal OCI is like debating which caliber is better between .308 and .30-'06. Both are fine hunting rounds, but they are in fact overkill for hunting squirell ...
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