My Viper Truck - Oil related Musings

[GutsyGecko]

Hello all, I have a 2005 Ram SRT-10 with the Gen 3 viper engine. 47k miles.
Current mods include;
CAI
Ported Throttle Body
SCT Tuning
Ported intake manifold
Port matching for the Throttlebody/manifold/heads
Longtube headers
A fairly aggressive cam and the subsequent head upgrades
165F thermostat
SPEC twin disk clutch

The owners manual specifies a maximum OCI of 3k with Mobil 1 0w-40. My truck makes about 100HP (a little over 600) over stock and does spend most of its life on a track in 100F+ temps. Oil temps even with dual coolers can peg the gauge at 300F+.

I found that mobil 1 15w-50 quiets the engine ticking noises down a lot.
So far I have run;
Mobil 1 15w-50 (last racing fill)
Castrol Edge 5w-50 (sounded like the M1 0w-40 after a few hundred miles.)
Royal Purple 15w-40 (it seemed to really like this stuff)
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 (Also slightly quieter than the 0w-40)
Valvoline VR1 20w-50 and 10w-30 at varying mixtures. (Seemed to blacken a lot less than other oils)
Pennzoil platinum 10w-30 (Made TONS of noise!!!)

Next up I'm not sure what I'm gonna run, but I have some RedLine 10w-60 that I picked up on an ebay auction for $5 a quart, and I'm kinda itching to see what it would do!

When I got the truck it was severely neglected. I bought it 1200 miles from home, and changed the oil 4 times within that drive because it would turn sludge black in 200 miles. When I got it home I ran a few 1k OCI's with a full can of Seafoam and then MMO in the crankcase. That seriously helped. It seems to be all clean now! I can now run to about 2700 miles before the oil is quite dark. I am fairly comfortable with doing 3k OCI's as its cheap insurance vs a 15 grand engine. It takes 10 quarts per change, and I use an amsoil eao26 oversized 2qt filter that is used for 2-3 OCI's depending how much [censored] has seemed to dislodge.

So, I know it's been a long read, but is there any oil in that list that I have made a mistake by using? The truck seems to run much better the thicker the oil including power. I attribute this to the extremely high bleed lifters. Anything you guys would do differently? Am I on the right track with thick, high zinc oils?

One more thing, other fluids include Amsoil 75w-140 gear lube, Amsoil ATF trans fluid, ATE Super Blue Dot 4 brake and clutch fluid, and G-05 Premix coolant with watter wetter.

Oh, and it will pull to 160mph in 5th gear...

 

[SatinSilver]

POST SOME PICTURES!

 

[dparm]

Have you paid to have any of those oils analyzed after service? I wouldn't go on noise alone.

Do you have an oil pressure gauge?

 

[Clevy]

First off nice truck.
Secondly a 10w-60 is way too thick unless you are experiencing 260f oil temps for extended periods. I'm a redline fan. I love their products however I don't think you need it that thick.
With a 10 quart sump 3000 miles oil change intervals are nuts. Truly nuts. No way is the oil used up at 3000 miles with that much oil in the sump.
I'd use M1 0w-40 or the pennzoil ultra SRT 0w-40 oil and get it analyzed so you can establish an actual interval instead of just guessing.
The M1 0w-40 can be had pretty cheap at Walmart. It would be my first choice due to cost and availability. It's also a world class oil with more performance engine certs than any other oil I'm aware of.
You don't need a 60 grade oil in that truck.
What are your max oil temps and for how long are those temps experienced for. I know for a fact that M1 0w-40 can handle 300F oil temps,on a circle track,for an extended period and the used oil analysis showed nothing out of the ordinary vehicle is an SRT Chrysler 300 with the 6.1.
We have a member here named SteveSRT. He's my go to guy when it comes to dodges and hemi's and all SRT engines. He's as expert as they come with the dodge performance and I trust him 100%. I suggest you message him. He's done used oil analysis with his 6.1 on the track with M1 0w-40 so he's definitely got data to back up his opinion.
I've had my charger up to 160mph. Rides like a dream on these flat prairie highways. In a truck that must be a white knuckle experience.
Nice truck. Message SteveSRT.
M1 0w-40 or the pennzoil ultra 0w-40 that was specially formulated for the SRT engines,or Belgian Castrol 0w-40.
I'm suggesting the Castrol 0w-40 because it meets some tough euro specs,which to me indicate a quality product but the best bang for any dollar spent is M1 0w-40.
If Porsche,Nissan gt-r,formerly dodge SRT,and other serious performance engines call for it by name I'm pretty sure it'll do just fine in your truck.

 

[440Magnum]

1) get some real pressure readings with different oils, both cold and hot (track hot, not just drive-around hot), at idle and at 4000 RPM.

2) Don't go by "sound" alone (at all...), run a given oil a couple of oil changes and establish trends.

3) Its going to be tough to actually find an oil that works much better than M1 0w40. The 15w50 is probably pretty decent for your application, too. If you drove it a lot every day, then I'd say stick with the 0w40. Which RP oil family did you use? they seem to have 3 now- the API-approved street oils, their "HPS" street/strip oils, and their "Extreme Performance" racing oils. I've always thought their HPS is a decent compromise. Don't know that the API series is worth any more than M1 or PU. Redline is a proven good product, not sure I'd go with an Xw60 though!!

4) I'm not overly impressed with PU's 0w40 "SRT" branded offering. I had a virgin oil analysis done, and while I'll state up front that a $30 analysis like that isn't very conclusive, it sure didn't have a strong dose of the conventional high-performance anti-wear additives. Not as high as M1 0w40. Now maybe it has a super-great additive package that's just unconventional... but since it was hurried out the door specifically at the request of SRT (they had to use 5w40 for a while after the changeover from being partnered with Mobil to being partnered with Pennzoil), I think its probably nothing very special. And others have said that PU 0w40 isn't even based on the Gas-to-Liquid base stocks like other PU flavors yet, so that's two strikes. I'd stick with M1 until PU at least makes Ultra 0w40 a GTL-based oil.

 

[Clevy]

And engine acoustics don't mean much. Just because an engine is noisy on specific oils doesn't mean the engine isn't protected.
Some oils muffle sound better than others,that has no bearing or effect on the oils ability to protect the engine nor does noise affect the oils film strength so if you are letting engine noise dictate what oil you're using in your "15000" dollar engine you really need to re-think that idea.
Try rotella conventional 15w-40. I bet the engine is quiet,and the oil is cheap. There's no question there's adequate zddp in that oil and can easily do a 5000 mile interval in a 10 quart sump.
But it's not as high tech as my other suggestions.
Royal Purple's euro line with synerlec would be a great choice too,but M1 0w-40 is the best bang for the buck,and I bet its able to run 10k mile intervals.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
1) get some real pressure readings with different oils, both cold and hot (track hot, not just drive-around hot), at idle and at 4000 RPM.

2) Don't go by "sound" alone (at all...), run a given oil a couple of oil changes and establish trends.

3) Its going to be tough to actually find an oil that works much better than M1 0w40. The 15w50 is probably pretty decent for your application, too. If you drove it a lot every day, then I'd say stick with the 0w40. Which RP oil family did you use? they seem to have 3 now- the API-approved street oils, their "HPS" street/strip oils, and their "Extreme Performance" racing oils. I've always thought their HPS is a decent compromise. Don't know that the API series is worth any more than M1 or PU. Redline is a proven good product, not sure I'd go with an Xw60 though!!



Awesome advice. Basically the condensed version of mine.
Great minds think alike.

 

[GutsyGecko]

Here's my thing, after a few (10) laps at the track, if you pull into the pits 0w-40 M1 will set the low oil pressure warning lights off. I've seen 360F oil temps before, and that's the norm for track use age. It rides like a dream at 160. With 50wt HOT oil pressure at idle is 22 ish psi. (Lights turn on at 20 psi). The cam manufacturer recommends the 15w-50 or equivalent.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
Here's my thing, after a few (10) laps at the track, if you pull into the pits 0w-40 M1 will set the low oil pressure warning lights off. I've seen 360F oil temps before, and that's the norm for track use age. It rides like a dream at 160. With 50wt HOT oil pressure at idle is 22 ish psi. (Lights turn on at 20 psi). The cam manufacturer recommends the 15w-50 or equivalent.


360°F -- seriously?

What's going on with your oil cooling system?

 

[GutsyGecko]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
Here's my thing, after a few (10) laps at the track, if you pull into the pits 0w-40 M1 will set the low oil pressure warning lights off. I've seen 360F oil temps before, and that's the norm for track use age. It rides like a dream at 160. With 50wt HOT oil pressure at idle is 22 ish psi. (Lights turn on at 20 psi). The cam manufacturer recommends the 15w-50 or equivalent.


Oil cooler?



Two of them.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
The cam manufacturer recommends the 15w-50 or equivalent.



So run a 15w50. You have several good choices there.

 

[Ramblejam]

Why is everyone here discussing different oils?

Folks, if he's only holding 22psi @ idle (especially with 15w-50), and supposedly hitting 360°F, there are serious problems here that no oil is going to fix.

 

[GutsyGecko]

Don't get me wrong, at operating temps oil pressure at idle is I'm the mid 30's. it's only when coming off of a track that my concern is. I have no doubt that for street driving or drag racing 15 second blasts at a time a 30wt would be sufficient.

 

[rslifkin]

It sounds like you need to add more oil cooling if you want to continue tracking it. If your oil temps are getting north of 300*, it's just too hot, regardless of whatever oil you're running.

 

[jamesyarbrough]

Give the 10w60 a shot. It wont hurt a thing! At those temps a thicker oil is better anyway. If it were me I would just choose a 50 grade and stick with it though. Maybe redline 20w50 or if cost was an issue I would choose VR1 20w50.

SOMEONE SAID 10K INTERVALS.

 

[heynow]

How big are the oil coolers? Any pictures of them? This is a relatively heavy and un-aerodynamic vehicle, which may boost oil temps compared to the same engine in a car.

 

[jamesyarbrough]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
It sounds like you need to add more oil cooling if you want to continue tracking it. If your oil temps are getting north of 300*, it's just too hot, regardless of whatever oil you're running.


You would be surprised at the temps hot rods reach at the track. 300 is high but normal for running a car that hard. Where I live us poor boys grout the water jackets in the block to keep from blowing out cylinder walls. Even with a cooler it will hit over 300 in a circle track car. The drag strip is alot easier tho. Point is its not uncommon and most people do it here with VR1 20W50 and just change the oil on race day.

 

[GutsyGecko]

I have a few hundred quarts of VR1 20w-50. All had for 5 cents a quart in the AAP merger. The engine is worked harder in the truck than the car. The other thing, is that SRT added tons of under flow trays and grille blocking pieces of plastic to improve aero that also hinder airflow to the radiators. The grille opening is only 2' by 1.5', whereas the coolers are 3x that size.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
Here's my thing, after a few (10) laps at the track, if you pull into the pits 0w-40 M1 will set the low oil pressure warning lights off. I've seen 360F oil temps before, and that's the norm for track use age. It rides like a dream at 160. With 50wt HOT oil pressure at idle is 22 ish psi. (Lights turn on at 20 psi). The cam manufacturer recommends the 15w-50 or equivalent.



With oil temps at 360F I'd be using that 10w-60 redline you acquired and I'd be looking for more.
Even a straight 60 grade if the truck is a warm weather only vehicle.
Amsoil makes a v-twin oil in the straight 60 grade.
Because of the insane oil temps you are experiencing I'd look to a motorcycle specific oil. They are made for the extreme heat that can easily creep up on a big cube air cooled v-twin when moving slow or stuck in traffic.
Then I'd add a friction modifier like mos2 just to help because v-twin oils have lots of zddp but no moly,and I dropped 40f using mos2 in my Harley based on using my temp gun pointed at the heads.
With oil temps that high you need a fan cooled oil cooler and a serious oil.
Try that redline you suggested right off the bat. Get a few used oil analysis done to establish trends then thicken or thin based on the collected data.
I'd stick with a redline product and if they've got limited options then I'd go with a v-twin oil from amsoil.
Those are insane oil temps. You need something that is overkill,redline products are formulated with overkill already inside.
And being poe/pao is a definite requirement and redline has it.

 

[jamesyarbrough]

Originally Posted By: GutsyGecko
I have a few hundred quarts of VR1 20w-50. All had for 5 cents a quart in the AAP merger. The engine is worked harder in the truck than the car. The other thing, is that SRT added tons of under flow trays and grille blocking pieces of plastic to improve aero that also hinder airflow to the radiators. The grille opening is only 2' by 1.5', whereas the coolers are 3x that size.


Run that VR1!!! Just change on race day like everybody else.