Motul Specific LL-01 FE 5W30 VOA

[CrazyJeeper]

Earlier I did a VOA on BMW's Twin Power Turbo LL-01 FE 0W30 SP which appears to be the new Castrol product located here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-twin-power-turbo-tpt-0w30-api-sp.340420/#post-5751285

I acquired some Motil Specific LL-01 FE in 5W30 and sent off a fresh sample of it to Blackstone. Below is the front and back of the bottle along with the report.

TDS located here: https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.n...0/Specific_LL-01_FE_5W-30_(GB).pdf?1600779526

 

[RazorsEdge]

Looks like a good oil! Thanks for posting this information.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Thank you for posting this lab analysis. I would definitely use this in my 2.4 Theta II engine to find it for a good price.

 

[addyguy]

Wow! That is a strong oil! Would love to run it if I could find it!

 

[RazorsEdge]

Wow! That is a strong oil! Would love to run it if I could find it!

Motul Specific LL-01 FE 5W30 Engine Oil (109370 / 109371)

LL-01 FE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil for BMW/MINI by Motul The Specific LL-01 FE 5W30 engine oil is a 100% synthetic engine oil that is specially designed for the latest BMW & MINI gasoline engine models requiring a BMW LL-01 FE approval. This oil is compatible with catalytic converters and is...

www.maperformance.com

MOTUL 109370 Motul Specific Motor Oil | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Motul Specific Motor Oil with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Engine Oil at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[benjy]

less costly than expected prolly a juiced up group III at that price, a stout looking ad pack!

 

[930.engineering]

Thanks for posting. One of the more stout LL-01 FE with a pretty solid HTHS of 3.4 mPas, 10.7 cSt at 100°C and 484 ppm boron.
Most LL-01 FE are 0W-30, this is 5W-30, that probably explains it to some extent. However I just don't buy the '100 % synthetic'.

ps
10.7 cSt according to data sheet, 10.35 cSt according to VOA, hope data sheet is true for HTHS
.

 

[The Critic]

These additive levels look unusually high. I would ask for a retest. But then again, the TDS shows a SA of 1.45% so the levels may be correct.

My supplier sells this for under $30/5-qt jug.

 

[930.engineering]

Not that uncommon. Some VW 504 00 are similar, e.g. M1 ESP 5W-30, Shell Helix Ultra Professional
AV-L 0W-30 (which is same as Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W-30 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W-30).

 

[2KBMW]

Too much calcium . No LSPI protection. It's API SN. Look at the BMW
0w30 VOA. It's API SP. Calcium is at 976 ppm and Magnesium is at 836.
Not good if your engine is a DI turbo.

 

[chris719]

Too much calcium . No LSPI protection. It's API SN. Look at the BMW
0w30 VOA. It's API SP. Calcium is at 976 ppm and Magnesium is at 836.
Not good if your engine is a DI turbo.

Well, their X-cess Gen 2 has similar calcium and magnesium numbers and yet the Motul rep on Rennlist claimed that they were designed to have enhanced piston deposit control to avoid LSPI.

BMW LL-01 FE is (only?) specified for GDI turbo engines, so I have a hard time believing that BMW spec is inadequate for their own engines and that a brand new formulation of an oil for high performance engines, which are almost all DI turbos these days, is not good for said engines. Perhaps there is more to LSPI control than some people here know?

 

[930.engineering]

BMW LL-01 FE has been invented 2001/2002 when BMW had no single GDI turbo engine in its entire portfolio. The first turbo GDI BMW engines have been the N55 (335i) and the N14 (Mini R56 Cooper S) both starting in 2006. BMW LL-04 is better suited for these engines at least where low-sulphur fuel is in use. There's very reasons to run LL-01 FE today.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Motul Specific motor oil is a 100 percent synthetic fuel economy engine oil specially formulated to lubricate the latest generation of Ford gasoline engines, apart from exceptions. Specific meets Ford WSS M2C 948-B specification--which is especially required for the 1.0L EcoBoost 3-cylinder engines--but is also fully compatible with some other Ford gasoline engines.

 

[chris719]

BMW LL-01 FE has been invented 2001/2002 when BMW had no single GDI turbo engine in its entire portfolio. The first have been the N55 (335i) and the N14 (Mini R56 Cooper S) both starting in 2006. BMW LL-04 is better suited for these engines at least where low-sulphur fuel is in use. There's very reasons to run LL-01 FE today.

It may have come about earlier, but LL-01 and FE were updated very recently. Every BMW turbo engine specifies LL-01 FE now including my S55 engine. N55 wasn't the first gasoline DI engine either, it was N54.

Note the color coded recommendations.

I don't have the full PDF page or table, but even S55 and S58 recommend LL-01 FE in the manual now and so I am sure this column is blue the entire way down for the most part. The point is, do you think BMW is dumb enough to have updated oil standards recently, not taken LSPI into account, and then recommend this inadequate oil for 500+ HP DI turbo engines if it were a real issue?

 

[930.engineering]

Very true about the updates, I wrote about them several times on this forum. Granted, N54 is correct, it's been 2006 still and that's past 2001/2002, what was the point as well as you said LL-01 FE is for turbo GDIs only, which isn't the case, as it has been developed for naturally aspirated engines originally at least.
That said, I'd never ever run this fuel efficiency ('FE') oil in a high-performance biturbo engine like that S55 (for other readers, that's BMW M2, M3, M4, not sure on X3/X4M). It deserves something better, say a LL-04 0W-40 or 5W-40. Regarding engine wear, first line of defense is oil film thickness which depends on viscosity. One if not most important descipline of viscosity ist HTHS. If I remember correctly LL-01 FE is between 3.0 and 3.4 mPas HTHS, which means Motuls Specific LL-01 FE is among the best of that kind. However LL-04 is >3.5 mPas and some LL-04 approved oils are 3.7 and even 3.8 mPas. I'd almost bet LL-04 also provides superior protection against IVD and LSPI occurences.

​

 

[CrazyJeeper]

Very true about the updates, I wrote about them several times on this forum. Granted, N54 is correct, it's been 2006 still and that's past 2001/2002, what was the point as well as you said LL-01 FE is for turbo GDIs only, which isn't the case, as it has been developed for naturally aspirated engines originally at least.
That said, I'd never ever run this fuel efficiency ('FE') oil in a high-performance biturbo engine like that S55 (for other readers, that's BMW M2, M3, M4, not sure on X3/X4M). It deserves something better, say a LL-04 0W-40 or 5W-40. Regarding engine wear, first line of defense is oil film thickness which depends on viscosity. One if not most important descipline of viscosity ist HTHS. If I remember correctly LL-01 FE is between 3.0 and 3.4 mPas HTHS, which means Motuls Specific LL-01 FE is among the best of that kind. However LL-04 is >3.5 mPas and some LL-04 approved oils are 3.7 and even 3.8 mPas. I'd almost bet LL-04 also provides superior protection against IVD and LSPI occurences.

​

I can’t tell if you’re located in the United States or not but LL-04 is not recommended for this area. Here’s Motul’s TDS for its Specific LL-04: https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.net/images/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/199/Specific_LL-04_5W-40_(GB).pdf?1597852630

Snippet from it:
“Engines compliant with Euro 4, 5 and 6 emission regulation are fitted with sensitive exhaust gas after treatment systems. Indeed, Sulfur and Phosphorus inhibit catalytic converters operation leading to inefficient exhaust gas treatment; and Sulfated Ash clogs DPFs leading to shorten regenerating cycle, quick oil aging, higher fuel consumption and engine power loss.
BMW Long Life-04 specification imposes severe constraints to the lubricant particularly due to Valvetronic and after treatment systems compatibility. It covers all BMW engines from 2004 and also all BMW engines before 2004. BMW LL-04 covers all the previous BMW specifications such as BMW LL-98 and BMW LL-01. ATTENTION: BMW LL-04 product can be used for gasoline engines only in European Union countries, Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein. Outside those countries, a BMW LL-01 lubricant like MOTUL 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40 is required. Refer to BMW recommendations. MOTUL Specific LL-04 5W-40 fulfils all the specifications of BMW Long Life-04 standard of the BMW Group for BMW, MINI and ROLLS-ROYCE vehicles with no exceptions i.e. for models before 2019 and after 2019. For models up to 2019, i.e. until end of 2018 only, MOTUL 8100 X-clean 5W-40 can also be used.”

 

[930.engineering]

This is a well discussed (non-)issue. The reasoning is or has been (formerly highish) sulphur levels in US gasoline. Today it's much closer to Euro sulphur levels which (practically) allows for running LL-04 oil at least after warranty. If in doubt and provided your manual specs it, I'd suggest running LL-01 (non-FE). Same minimum HTHS level as LL-04 but LL-01 FE-like SAPS levels. I understand one feels better to follow the recommendation provided in the manual, however the concerns about running mid-SAPS LL-04 in the US are actually pretty outdated today.

 

[Brons2]

Are there any UOAs of this oil? Looks pretty strong for a NA motor. I don't own any turbo cars.

 

[Dawgz]

Very true about the updates, I wrote about them several times on this forum. Granted, N54 is correct, it's been 2006 still and that's past 2001/2002, what was the point as well as you said LL-01 FE is for turbo GDIs only, which isn't the case, as it has been developed for naturally aspirated engines originally at least.
That said, I'd never ever run this fuel efficiency ('FE') oil in a high-performance biturbo engine like that S55 (for other readers, that's BMW M2, M3, M4, not sure on X3/X4M). It deserves something better, say a LL-04 0W-40 or 5W-40. Regarding engine wear, first line of defense is oil film thickness which depends on viscosity. One if not most important descipline of viscosity ist HTHS. If I remember correctly LL-01 FE is between 3.0 and 3.4 mPas HTHS, which means Motuls Specific LL-01 FE is among the best of that kind. However LL-04 is >3.5 mPas and some LL-04 approved oils are 3.7 and even 3.8 mPas. I'd almost bet LL-04 also provides superior protection against IVD and LSPI occurences.

​

Unfortunately BMW calls for the LL01FE for the x3m and newer M3/M4. This oil though is probably the best of the category vs going with the BMW 0W30 oil as long as warranty is concerned.

I assume if one was to use LL01 5W40 like the X-Cess Gen2 vs LL01FE Specific, and an engine failure was to happen - BMW "could" point to the wrong oil being used as the cause.

 

[kschachn]

I assume if one was to use LL01 5W40 like the X-Cess Gen2 vs LL01FE Specific, and an engine failure was to happen - BMW "could" point to the wrong oil being used as the cause.

If the oil was the cause of the failure. But no Longlife-01 oil will be, an engine is not damaged by a higher HT/HS like this.