In that vein, the Red Line probably doesn't meet the requirements for your Subaru, either, regardless of viscosity, if one really wishes to get technical.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
In that vein, the Red Line probably doesn't meet the requirements for your Subaru, either, regardless of viscosity, if one really wishes to get technical.
I didn't look at RL closely after seeing the cold viscosity number, but I do believe that it had a high calcium reading that might be something to avoid in a DIT engine.
Do you think that RL does not meet an express Subaru requirement, or do you just think it's a bad choice for my vehicle? Curious about what you're alluding to if you are willing to elaborate...
In that vein, the Red Line probably doesn't meet the requirements for your Subaru, either, regardless of viscosity, if one really wishes to get technical.
I didn't look at RL closely after seeing the cold viscosity number, but I do believe that it had a high calcium reading that might be something to avoid in a DIT engine.
Do you think that RL does not meet an express Subaru requirement, or do you just think it's a bad choice for my vehicle? Curious about what you're alluding to if you are willing to elaborate...
I'm sure Red Line would serve you well, but it isn't technically an ILSAC rated lube, and I suspect your vehicle calls for SM/GF-4 or better. The Red Line stuff isn't API/ILSAC certified. Some people are comfortable going out of specification, and other people are not, that's all.
I think Red Line is a fantastic oil. Its price point (and availability up here) just make it a tough sell for a daily driver.
I think Red Line is a fantastic oil. Its price point (and availability up here) just make it a tough sell for a daily driver.
Its getting deep in here. A full ester is going to coke up turbo bearings?
I wouldn't worry about that in the least. I'd personally get choked up paying Canadian retail prices on the product for anything resembling a daily driver.
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm sure Red Line would serve you well, but it isn't technically an ILSAC rated lube, and I suspect your vehicle calls for SM/GF-4 or better. The Red Line stuff isn't API/ILSAC certified. Some people are comfortable going out of specification, and other people are not, that's all.
I think Red Line is a fantastic oil. Its price point (and availability up here) just make it a tough sell for a daily driver.
The manual says API SM/SN or ILSAC GF-4/5 synthetic 5W-30 is required. But you can only use non-Subaru oil if the real thing is not available!!
I would certainly consider Subaru (Idemitsu?) oil if I could review a product data sheet for it. They should be happy to share that if it's really so great.
I'm sure Red Line would serve you well, but it isn't technically an ILSAC rated lube, and I suspect your vehicle calls for SM/GF-4 or better. The Red Line stuff isn't API/ILSAC certified. Some people are comfortable going out of specification, and other people are not, that's all.
I think Red Line is a fantastic oil. Its price point (and availability up here) just make it a tough sell for a daily driver.
The manual says API SM/SN or ILSAC GF-4/5 synthetic 5W-30 is required. But you can only use non-Subaru oil if the real thing is not available!!
I would certainly consider Subaru (Idemitsu?) oil if I could review a product data sheet for it. They should be happy to share that if it's really so great.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its getting deep in here. A full ester is going to coke up turbo bearings?
Did you read the link that Simple_Gifts posted back on page 4? It's not the base stock, it's the additives.
Not a chance in the world of that happening.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its getting deep in here. A full ester is going to coke up turbo bearings?
Did you read the link that Simple_Gifts posted back on page 4? It's not the base stock, it's the additives.
Not a chance in the world of that happening.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its getting deep in here. A full ester is going to coke up turbo bearings?
Did you read the link that Simple_Gifts posted back on page 4? It's not the base stock, it's the additives.
Its not getting deep and its not about additives its pretty simple if you want it to be.
Follow the OEM guidelines, recommended grades and preferably use oils that are OEM approved.
Does BITOG complicate things ?
Redline doesn't help complication either it writes pages and pages in technical bulletins on its site trying to exonerate exemption from requiring OEM approvals whilst demonstrating its fabulousness.
I stopped ""buying"" the Redline technical waffles a long time ago these are too complicated, oils too expensive and reverted back to OEM, API or ACEA approved oil supported by OEM recommendations.
Topic makes good discussion though.
And like others question here quote justification for the departure from the OEMs program ""How many engines have failed from an approved OEM oil and OEM recommended maintenance program?
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Its getting deep in here. A full ester is going to coke up turbo bearings?
Did you read the link that Simple_Gifts posted back on page 4? It's not the base stock, it's the additives.
Its not getting deep and its not about additives its pretty simple if you want it to be.
Follow the OEM guidelines, recommended grades and preferably use oils that are OEM approved.
Does BITOG complicate things ?
Redline doesn't help complication either it writes pages and pages in technical bulletins on its site trying to exonerate exemption from requiring OEM approvals whilst demonstrating its fabulousness.
I stopped ""buying"" the Redline technical waffles a long time ago these are too complicated, oils too expensive and reverted back to OEM, API or ACEA approved oil supported by OEM recommendations.
Topic makes good discussion though.
And like others question here quote justification for the departure from the OEMs program ""How many engines have failed from an approved OEM oil and OEM recommended maintenance program?
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Their 0w oil is $12qt and the straight wts are $15. I'm guessing the straight wt racing stuff is better quality stocks.
The greatly higher additive concentrations also cost money.
Their 0w oil is $12qt and the straight wts are $15. I'm guessing the straight wt racing stuff is better quality stocks.
The greatly higher additive concentrations also cost money.
Originally Posted By: priler
sure,ok. or,they could be using a VII with less molecular weight which would provide less VI but also be much less shear prone. your assumptions of the quality of VIIs in relation to VI of an oil formulation is not correct.
I was NOT stating that they were using "lower quality" VIIs, just probably not the newest 'asteric' type used in the sky high VI; TGMO/Sustina/MGMO oils.
And YES, the scenario you envisioned above could be correct as well, but unless Dave, or one of their other techs tells us, we will never know.
sure,ok. or,they could be using a VII with less molecular weight which would provide less VI but also be much less shear prone. your assumptions of the quality of VIIs in relation to VI of an oil formulation is not correct.
I was NOT stating that they were using "lower quality" VIIs, just probably not the newest 'asteric' type used in the sky high VI; TGMO/Sustina/MGMO oils.
And YES, the scenario you envisioned above could be correct as well, but unless Dave, or one of their other techs tells us, we will never know.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The manual says API SM/SN or ILSAC GF-4/5 synthetic 5W-30 is required. But you can only use non-Subaru oil if the real thing is not available!!
That's pretty silly, and it's been discussed here before. What is really an SM/GF-4 or better synthetic? Is a Group III good enough? Or do they want something really fancy? Listing A5/B5 might have made a lot more sense, but such is life. There's a reason we don't see a lot of Group IV or V 5w-30 SN/GF-5 oils out there. It's massive overkill.
The manual says API SM/SN or ILSAC GF-4/5 synthetic 5W-30 is required. But you can only use non-Subaru oil if the real thing is not available!!
That's pretty silly, and it's been discussed here before. What is really an SM/GF-4 or better synthetic? Is a Group III good enough? Or do they want something really fancy? Listing A5/B5 might have made a lot more sense, but such is life. There's a reason we don't see a lot of Group IV or V 5w-30 SN/GF-5 oils out there. It's massive overkill.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The manual says API SM/SN or ILSAC GF-4/5 synthetic 5W-30 is required. But you can only use non-Subaru oil if the real thing is not available!!
That's pretty silly, and it's been discussed here before. What is really an SM/GF-4 or better synthetic? Is a Group III good enough? Or do they want something really fancy? Listing A5/B5 might have made a lot more sense, but such is life. There's a reason we don't see a lot of Group IV or V 5w-30 SN/GF-5 oils out there. It's massive overkill.
I'm not using "Subaru" oil if Subaru won't tell me how that oil performs.
Period.
I figure they must have something to hide, like the fact that there's nothing exceptional, or even particularly good, about it.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The manual says API SM/SN or ILSAC GF-4/5 synthetic 5W-30 is required. But you can only use non-Subaru oil if the real thing is not available!!
That's pretty silly, and it's been discussed here before. What is really an SM/GF-4 or better synthetic? Is a Group III good enough? Or do they want something really fancy? Listing A5/B5 might have made a lot more sense, but such is life. There's a reason we don't see a lot of Group IV or V 5w-30 SN/GF-5 oils out there. It's massive overkill.
I'm not using "Subaru" oil if Subaru won't tell me how that oil performs.
Period.
I figure they must have something to hide, like the fact that there's nothing exceptional, or even particularly good, about it.
I'm sure the Subaru stuff is fine oil, but I tend to get a little nervous at the premium that dealers charge for their stuff, generally speaking. I doubt it has any superior certifications to PP, M1, or Syntec.
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