Mobil 1 Product Guide- Flatt tappet

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""I will even go so far as to say that I will send actual samples from the same bottles if you care enough to have them tested somewhere else.""

Yes do that harris lab is wacked send me 4 ounces of each oil with the full label lot # I will have spectro run on both and send you a copy for free.

email me for my shipping info

bruce
 
Also let me add that EVEB if Mobil dropped ZDDP (I do not think so) then SM still requires camshaft protection and as such newer more exspensive ASHLESS AW additive can and are being used to do the same think at a higher cost tho.
bruce
 
Bruce I have had someone take samples for you from the exact bottles that I submitted to Harris for testing. If you send me a UPS/FedEx address I will get them out to you immediately. I will even offer to pay for the test if it turns out that my statements are wrong. I will also include pages from the ASTM D 3244-07 "Standard Practice for Utilization of Test Data to Determine Conformance with Specifications" as well as the API 1509 section 3.7 explanation on how a "Provisional License" can be granted in the event of a non-critical specification failure as well as a few other interesting reasons for how important things can be left out of a certified product. I also included section 3.8 which I find really interesting. It allows a provisional license to be granted if there is a shortage of "base oil or additives"-------imagine that!!!!!
At any rate please keep in touch and perhaps you might want to post the results and these papers when you get a chance
 
Quote:

Also let me add that EVEB if Mobil dropped ZDDP (I do not think so) then SM still requires camshaft protection and as such newer more exspensive ASHLESS AW additive can and are being used to do the same think at a higher cost tho.
bruce

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While this statement seems reasonable I see one major flaw with the logic. It seems very clear from tests that have been conducted on thousands of cars over millions of miles that there has never been an additive that could out perform ZDDP for the protection of flat tappet cams. Now that virtually all cars have roller tappets it might be possible to substitute an adequate additive that protects them, but that still leaves a lot of doubt for the protection of older engines.

Have you seen any data to support your hypothesis??? If so please share.
 
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Some earlier made comment about min zddp/p specs being fine in the new SM's, however, if you look at the Mobil pdf linked in the first post the only FLAT TAPPET recommended oil is the 15w50. So whats that tell you? If the SM XwXX with .1% p/zn is not flat tappet recommended, then somethings fishy in my books. Castol has pretty much put the same thing in writing, suggesting in their case that 20w50 is flat tappet safe.

That brings me to something I want to address to any oil people reading this:
JUST BECUASE I HAVE A FLAT TAPPET CAM DOES NOT MEAN I WANT TO USE 15/20W50 (Hello Castrol, Hello Mobil 1). I drive in the winter, I don't need honey in the crankcase. Man up and put something out there in a 10w30 or 5w30 that you will stand behind as being flat tappet safe.

Alex.

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Actually, Mobil recommends more oils than the 15w-50, this is direct from Mobil 1's website:

Does Mobil 1 Contain the Additive for Flat Tappet Cams?
I build a few engines a year as I do muscle car repairs and I have been having a lot of camshaft failures. I just read that it is because the oil no longer has the additive for flat tappet cams. Can I use Mobil 1 to break in fresh rebuilt engines of '60s and '70s tech? Is it too slippery for new ring break-in? Will it give protection on new cam and lifters?
-- Frederick Neidlinger, Dover/Dover AFB, DE
Answer:
For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of oil products which are higher in phosphorus than API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50, Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 (1200 ppm phosphorus), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm) and Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40 (1000 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SM/ISLAC GF-4 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800 ppm).

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Flat_Tappet_Engines.aspx

Also, the Truck and SUV Diesel 5w-40 has the highest level of phosphorus at 1300ppm (.13%).
 
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does "flat tappet" also include DAMB (direct acting mechanical bucket) lifters as well?

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My understanding is no. It only applies to cam in block engines that use non-roller lifters to actuate the pushrods and then the rockers and valves.
 
The reason people don't discuss flat OHC lifters is because the valve spring pressure is lower, as there is less for the spring to push back.
 
David send me an Email I will send address I have NO fex or UPS account numbers to use sorry that charge is yours.

I'LL have samples run NO charge Info sent back to you.

As far as

"Have you seen any data to support your hypothesis??? If so please share."" Sorry data I have is In house only just take my word for it.
bruce
 
I do not want to post any info on me, company or address I
have NO agenda but this way I'm "legit" as far as whatever I say I have no axe to grind either.
bruce
 
Davis email sent

also "shortage of "base oil or additives"

That means that you can SUBSTITUTE it does not mean you can "leave out" additives.
bruce
 
Quote:

David send me an Email I will send address I have NO fex or UPS account numbers to use sorry that charge is yours.

I'LL have samples run NO charge Info sent back to you.

As far as

"Have you seen any data to support your hypothesis??? If so please share."" Sorry data I have is In house only just take my word for it.
bruce

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Bruce--by the way I didn't ask for an account # but a UPS/FedExable address. Sometimes folks use a PO box and as you know that doesn't always work. Also I printed on each sample the "code" numbers that appear on each bottle. I do not know how to decode them --perhaps you do. Another thing that surprised me about the Mobil 1. It wasn't the regular 10w-30 but the "extended service" 15k mile stuff! I forgot that I had picked that type since I felt that it would make the best showing.
 
Quote:

Davis email sent

also "shortage of "base oil or additives"

That means that you can SUBSTITUTE it does not mean you can "leave out" additives.
bruce

Click to expand...


What is the substitute for ZDDP when it comes to flat tappet cams?? I haven't seen much credible evidence that there is a satisfactory one. Even Mobil 1 on their site says it is the additive of choice for this now specialized application.
 
There is no substitute. You either have it in or you dont. Period. If you have a flat tappet cam you must either run an oil with ZDDP or have a ZDDP additive.
 
Mobil 1 JP

Question still comes up often. fwiw

5w-50 PAO
0w-40 PAO
0w-30 PAO
0w-20 PAO
5w-30 PAO + Hydroproc
10w-30 PAO + Hydroprocessed
 
Originally Posted By: SargeGTO
There is no substitute. You either have it in or you dont. Period. If you have a flat tappet cam you must either run an oil with ZDDP or have a ZDDP additive.

I would love to read the data that supported this assertion.
Got a link?
 
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