M1 10w30, 6,773 miles, '00 Grand Caravan 3.3

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DKT

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This is the 2nd UOA on this engine. The 1st was 10W30 Castrol Syntech, the 2nd was M1 10W30.

Engine: 3.3 L
Miles on oil: 4,060, 6,773 Total 59,829
Make up oil: none

1st 2nd
TBN 1.9 2.3
Aluminum 3 2
Chromium 1 1
Iron 12 22
Copper 1 1
Lead 1 0
Tin 0 0
Moly 42 48
Nickel 1 1
Manganese 1 0
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 2 0
Boron 15 73
Silicon 19 13
Sodium 6 4
Calcium 2566 1821
Magnesium 4 13
Phosphorous 615 520
Zinc 702 556
Barium 0 0

SUS Viscosity 60.3 64.1 should be 59-68
Flashpoint 390 410 should be >375
Fuel Antifreeze 0 0
Water 0 0
Insolubles 0.4 0.5 should be

90% of driving under 5 miles. This last change had a trip to Fla at the end of the interval of about 2,600 miles all interstate @ 70 mph.

1st was with Fram Filter, 2nd with Microtech filter.

Terry is going to do the analysis.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
Typical higher irons for Mobil 1, but looks good for this GF-4 Mobil 1.
Click to expand...
Isn't that strange how M1 typically shows higher iron. I wonder what it could be that causes that. Other than the Fe, looks like it held up better than Syntec.
 
posted by Al
quote:
Typical higher irons for Mobil 1
Click to expand...
At first glance the iron looks much higher for the Mobil 1 but if you calculate ppm for each 1000 miles:

Castrol - 2.95

Mobil 1 - 3.24

and the Mobil 1 has 0 lead wear with more then 50% more miles, not too shabby.
grin.gif
 
In addition to what Bill said I waaaanted to add that M1 also had much better TBN retension as well and it had more miles on it to boot! THe wear numbers are not different enough to make much difference in the long hual but the TBN difference is significant!THe flash point and insolubles was also much better with M1 even with the extra miles!

I would not make much of the extra iron! Chrysler engines tend to trend higher iron numbers then most makes.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
In addition to what Bill said I waaaanted to add that M1 also had much better TBN retension as well and it had more miles on it to boot! THe wear numbers are not different enough to make much difference in the long hual but the TBN difference is significant!THe flash point and insolubles was also much better with M1 even with the extra miles!

I would not make much of the extra iron! Chrysler engines tend to trend higher iron numbers then most makes.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The M1 held up very well.
 
The oil has thicken up which would have never happen with the SL mobil 1 10w-30. However the ware metals look good. The insolubles are high for the milage in my opinion. Still need more UOA to judge this SM Gf-4 stuff. I am not impressed with the SM GF-4 so far synthetic or dino.
 
I don't completely understand the SM Vs SL, but this is the old M1, purchased from WalMart about 4 months ago.

I was really nervous about the trip to Fla on this oil as the Syntech didn't have much TBN left after 4,000 miles. I guess it just proves again on easy highway miles are on an oil.

This fill was during the cooler months and don't know if that had any impact.
 
quoted by TR3-2001SE
quote:
The oil has thicken up which would have never happen with the SL mobil 1 10w-30
Click to expand...
as TR3 wrote, this oil did thicken some, this 10W-30 started at around cSt 10.0, this sample is currently at cSt 11.44 (SUS 64.1) but this oil has more life in it until it is a 40 weight.

Bill
 
MikeP,

The high iron you see with Mobil 1 is from valve train wear. I think the AW additive chemistry in all the 30wt Mobil 1 formulations (except the M-1R) leaves something to be desired. The 15w-50 works much better, but then again it has optimum levels of ZDP and not the very low levels mandated by the API for 20wt and 30wt grades.

Of course, you also don't see this very high iron with their excellent Delvac 1, 5w-40 oil, as I've pointed out about a thousand times ...
wink.gif


Ted
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
MikeP,

The high iron you see with Mobil 1 is from valve train wear. I think the AW additive chemistry in all the 30wt Mobil 1 formulations (except the M-1R) leaves something to be desired. The 15w-50 works much better, but then again it has optimum levels of ZDP and not the very low levels mandated by the API for 20wt and 30wt grades.

Of course, you also don't see this very high iron with their excellent Delvac 1, 5w-40 oil, as I've pointed out about a thousand times ...
wink.gif


Ted
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for the explanation!
cheers.gif
 
If Blackstone did your UOA's then your TBN's are fine. Their method of determining TBN is different than most other labs it seems and produces a "lower" number. Ask Terry about it, he'll explain it.

Whimsey
 
I think the AW additive chemistry in all the 30wt Mobil 1 formulations (except the M-1R) leaves something to be desired. The 15w-50 works much better, but then again it has optimum levels of ZDP and not the very low levels mandated by the API for 20wt and 30wt grades.

That's why I now use 1-qt Mobil 1 15W-50 with 5-qts 5W-30 in my Chevy Colorado's six quart crankcase. It beefs up the Mobil 1 nicely -- yet keeps it in 5W-30 specifications.
 
quote:
The 15w-50 works much better, but then again it has optimum levels of ZDP and not the very low levels mandated by the API for 20wt and 30wt grades
Click to expand...
Disagree entirely. Again, if ZDP was the issue, most other oils would show high levels of Fe. We've seen side by side comparisons of a dino oil with a good additive pacakge and LOW ZDP doing very well. It's not a ZDP issue IMO.
smile.gif
 
I was changing the air filter on Sunday and I noticed an air hose from the clean side of the air filter to the valve cover was cracked (big time). I just taped it up until I have time to replace it.

What impact do you think this might have had on the UOA? Elevated Silicon?

BTW the air filter wasn't all that dirty, but it is a pain to replace, and since I already had all of the pieces removed, I put in the new filter (2nd change in 60K miles).
 
Its interesting that in the current Mobil product mix, the "Full Synthetic" EP oils (vs the 5000 and 7500) look a lot like the SL oil from before. I wonder that PAO might be reaching its limits (from a lubricity perspective) with low levels of ZDP.
 
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