Looks like FCA got busted like VW/Audi

[Brigadier]

Quote
Fiat Chrysler will pay more than $650 million to settle allegations that it cheated on emissions tests involving more than 104,000 Jeep SUVs and Ram pickup trucks, a person with the knowledge of the settlement told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The Italian-American automaker will be required to pay around $311 million in fines to the federal government and California regulators, according to the person, who wasn't authorized to discuss the settlement publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

Under the deal, the company will also need to pay about $280 million to compensate vehicle owners — resulting in payouts of about $2,800 per owner — as well as another $72 million to settle claims made by other states, the person said.


https://apnews.com/84e56ae988e84368...mpaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

 

[itguy08]

Seems like they got off easy compared to VW.

VW 550,000 vehicles - 14.7 Billion (https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/guide-to-the-volkswagen-dieselgate-emissions-recall-)
FCA - 104,000 vehicles - 1.02 Billion

Even though VW was 5x as many vehicles they paid a whole lot more than 5x the fine.

 

[PimTac]

I wonder how they will pay that?

 

[FirstNissan]

I'm not sure how the math adds up. 20% of the vehicles and they are paying only 7% of the fine. I have a feeling that it came down to politics, FCA paying 3 billion would completely bankrupt them and the unions.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I'm not sure how the math adds up. 20% of the vehicles and they are paying only 7% of the fine. I have a feeling that it came down to politics, FCA paying 3 billion would completely bankrupt them and the unions.

So then let them go under. If these violations were as serious as claimed the fine should be the same for all. If nothing else it serves as a deterrent for others not to do it.

 

[Driz]

Oh well . Never was a Dodge guy myself and you couldn't give me a 🙄Fiat. Who knows where this will go but kee this in mind if you have one. My buddy was dumb and immediately took his VW in like they told him. Whatever magic the dealer did knocked his gas mileage way down, at least 10 mpg. IIRC it was a diesel and went from 50ish way down to 38+-! He got to live with that while VW put him through a couple years of hoops to jump through before buying it back.
The lesson learned here: when some carmaker needs to see your car in these circumstances DONT BE THAT GUY THAT WENT STRAIGHT IN for the magic 🤥fix🤬. Hang back, sniff around , wait a while and ask around before deciding to go in. Remember there's few secrets on the web. People get screwed and they speak out, there's no hiding it anymore. Once you have satisfied yourself that it's legitimate and isn't going to harm you in any way then let them touch it. Remember well, those bureaucrats care not a bit about anything nut a set of numbers . They hold sway over the manufacturers nut NOT YOU! So be careful what you let those guys OR Chrysler talk you into because you're the one paying the bill.
Maybe this won't apply here and I hope it doesn't . On the other hand you don't want to be that guy who gets to warn everybody else do you? There's plenty of car ...unsavy folks out there to do it for you. Let them tap dance through the minefield instead. Good luck Chrysler Critters.............

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted by itguy08
Seems like they got off easy compared to VW.

VW 550,000 vehicles - 14.7 Billion (https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/guide-to-the-volkswagen-dieselgate-emissions-recall-)
FCA - 104,000 vehicles - 1.02 Billion

Even though VW was 5x as many vehicles they paid a whole lot more than 5x the fine.


You can only bleed a dying patient so much...

 

[LoneRanger]

Proof that what VW did isn't that unusual among auto manufacturers ...

 

[Kira]

Please don't jump on me for being "unexciting" or a "closet Amish" or anything else....but

I get it, performance sells cars and upping the horsepower or 0-60 ET is paramount.

When will people learn that things like VW diesels or Dodge Ram twucks are just fine if they just drive?

Putting up with diesel's slow acceleration didn't kill grandpa and it won't kill us.

Also, foolish consumers wanting touch screens in cars?? How in love with junk can you be?

Just design a car and make it work. I ain't entering it in the Indianapolis 500.

Vehicle hungry...."That's the way uh huh uh huh they want us uh huh uh huh"....or maybe some of us are happier that way?

Grumble-grumble

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Kira
Please don't jump on me for being "unexciting" or a "closet Amish" or anything else....but

I get it, performance sells cars and upping the horsepower or 0-60 ET is paramount.

When will people learn that things like VWs or Dodge Ram twucks are just fine if they just drive?

You (they) really must get over yourselves (themselves).

Also, stupid consumers wanting touch screens in cars?? How in love with junk can you be?

Just design a car and make it work. I ain't entering it in the Indianapolis 500.

Stupid consumers...."That's the way uh huh uh huh they want us uh huh uh huh"....or maybe some of us are happier that way?

I'm sure that you're trying to make a point, I'm just not sure what it is.

 

[sloinker]

The common wisdom reported on in the last few years subsequent to the VW scandal has it that the Chevy Cruze diesel along with all the domestic diesel 3/4 ton and larger trucks are in violation too.

 

[demarpaint]

I said it when VW got called out on it they wouldn't be the last.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Kira
Please don't jump on me for being "unexciting" or a "closet Amish" or anything else....but

I get it, performance sells cars and upping the horsepower or 0-60 ET is paramount.

When will people learn that things like VWs or Dodge Ram twucks are just fine if they just drive?

You (they) really must get over yourselves (themselves).

Also, stupid consumers wanting touch screens in cars?? How in love with junk can you be?

Just design a car and make it work. I ain't entering it in the Indianapolis 500.

Stupid consumers...."That's the way uh huh uh huh they want us uh huh uh huh"....or maybe some of us are happier that way?

I'm sure that you're trying to make a point, I'm just not sure what it is.





Mellaril.

 

[Kira]

Sorry for venting like an old crank...

Just sayin', speed, bling and gaudy electronics weren't necessary and made vehicles pricey.

Live within the limits of clean operation.....market vehicles differently...modernize.....

 

[dbias]

Part of VW's sins was dening and delaying the investigation by the EPA. Their undoing was an Environmental Automotive Organization was so impressed by the efficiency and performance of the TDI models that they did testing to see why other automakers couldn't come close to VW results, a case of "too good to be true". Engineering students at WVU who had a mobile exhaust testing machine that fit in the trunk and ran tests that revealed in real world situations the Nox levels were well above the legal limits.
The EPA was basically clueless to the whole situation as in their tests, with the front wheels rolling on a stationary machine and not turning and the rear wheels not turning the computer saw this as a test and turned the emissions systems on. As soon as the vehicle was backed out of the testing facility and the front wheels turned the emissions systems were turned off.

And yes practically everyone cheats.

I see where VW and Ford will soon be cooperating in some ways to explore sharing technology. I think VW wants truck/suv stuff from Ford and Ford is desperate for help in EV and in Europe and China where VW does extremely well.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Proof that what VW did isn't that unusual among auto manufacturers ...

Yup. I've been saying this all along. VW just happened to get caught... first.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
I said it when VW got called out on it they wouldn't be the last.


I think I recall that post....

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Proof that what VW did isn't that unusual among auto manufacturers ...

Yup. I've been saying this all along. VW just happened to get caught... first.


Agreed.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted by Kira
Sorry for venting like an old crank...

Just sayin', speed, bling and gaudy electronics weren't necessary and made vehicles pricey.

Live within the limits of clean operation.....market vehicles differently...modernize.....

I got your point.

Anyone shopping for a basic, no-nonsense full-sized pickup truck gets your point.

I can live with a straight-6 that is easy to work on and has enough torque to pull stumps. Instead we get short-stroke V-8's (WHY???), turbo V-6, aluminum, etc., etc., but oh wait it has a TOUCH SCREEN guess what 5 years from now your GPS map will be 8 years old because it wasn't up to date when it was new.

OK now I'm venting like an old crank... sorry!

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
I said it when VW got called out on it they wouldn't be the last.


Yep......EVERY auto manufacturer has or is doing it.

Probably why they don't want anyone to have assess to the engine calibrations....Citing "Intellectual Property".

GM & Ford will be next as I know for a fact some of their calibrations have emissions control monitors in a passive state. What get's certified is not always what hits the dealerships!

What I don't agree with in all this........Going after parts suppliers/manufacturers (i.e. Bosch). Bosch does't have their engine controller certified to pass emissions protocols, It's on the auto manufacturer!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by dbias
Part of VW's sins was dening and delaying the investigation by the EPA. Their undoing was an Environmental Automotive Organization was so impressed by the efficiency and performance of the TDI models that they did testing to see why other automakers couldn't come close to VW results, a case of "too good to be true". Engineering students at WVU who had a mobile exhaust testing machine that fit in the trunk and ran tests that revealed in real world situations the Nox levels were well above the legal limits.
The EPA was basically clueless to the whole situation as in their tests, with the front wheels rolling on a stationary machine and not turning and the rear wheels not turning the computer saw this as a test and turned the emissions systems on. As soon as the vehicle was backed out of the testing facility and the front wheels turned the emissions systems were turned off.

And yes practically everyone cheats.

I see where VW and Ford will soon be cooperating in some ways to explore sharing technology. I think VW wants truck/suv stuff from Ford and Ford is desperate for help in EV and in Europe and China where VW does extremely well.

Yes.
But it was not EPA> EPA is so purposely undermined by politicians, that they find themselves lacking resources etc. It was CARB who pushed all this.
VWU students presented findings at the conference in San Diego, and some people from CARB were in audience. Than they offered students their laboratories but also started their own investigation. Problem for VW is that they got used on clout they have over European Parliament and Council. They thought they could do same here. But American political decentralization worked against them.
CARB pushed VW< and they lied and lied, and finally at one meeting with CARB officials, VW guy, disregarding orders admitted what happened as he could not answer some simple technical questions by CARB engineers.
Since than too, CARB is under pressure and there is serious attempt by this administration to change exempt status that CA has under Clean Air and Clean Water Act's. Because CA is so big, what they do affects everyone, and VW case is reminder to all businesses that they might have influence in DC, but CA is still there.