If your even thinking about running a Group 1 oil in either of your cars I have lost all hope for you.
Looking for a Stout 5w-30 Dino with High-ish ZDDP
- Thread starter ARCOgraphite
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Originally Posted By: Johnny
If your even thinking about running a Group 1 oil in either of your cars I have lost all hope for you.
Yea, I was going to try and say something to that affect...
Arco, try a HM oil like Pennzoil. I think it'll be the closest thing to what you're looking for. It's on the thick side of the spectrum. If you want to beef up the phosphorous, spike it with an oil treatment like STP.
Really, for the money you've supposedly spend swapping out oils and filters because of percieved noise and engine feel, you could have gone straight for Redline. It's essentially going to be the beefiest oil you can get.
If your even thinking about running a Group 1 oil in either of your cars I have lost all hope for you.
Yea, I was going to try and say something to that affect...
Arco, try a HM oil like Pennzoil. I think it'll be the closest thing to what you're looking for. It's on the thick side of the spectrum. If you want to beef up the phosphorous, spike it with an oil treatment like STP.
Really, for the money you've supposedly spend swapping out oils and filters because of percieved noise and engine feel, you could have gone straight for Redline. It's essentially going to be the beefiest oil you can get.
Originally Posted By: jeffie
Where did you get the specs for that jd oil?
i have a jd oil sales guide, available at jd dealership. basically -lists all of their fluids with specs to help match application.
vis @ 100`c- 10.9
vis index-160
pour point- -38`c
tbn- 10
sulfated ash- 1.20
Where did you get the specs for that jd oil?
i have a jd oil sales guide, available at jd dealership. basically -lists all of their fluids with specs to help match application.
vis @ 100`c- 10.9
vis index-160
pour point- -38`c
tbn- 10
sulfated ash- 1.20
If you took half a day and snuck around some gas stations, grocery stores, or quicky mart type places, you can usually find stashes of SL/GF-3, which have 200 ppm more phosphorus then SM/GF-4. problem is, most places price it at over 4 bucks a quart.
One grocery store in my neighborhood has all the Chevron Supreme oils in SL/GF-3, to include 5w-40 synthetic, and high mileage.
The regular conventional is $3.99/quart, the high mileage is $4.99/quart, and the synthetic is $6.99/quart.
One grocery store in my neighborhood has all the Chevron Supreme oils in SL/GF-3, to include 5w-40 synthetic, and high mileage.
The regular conventional is $3.99/quart, the high mileage is $4.99/quart, and the synthetic is $6.99/quart.
Why does it have to be 5W? How about a 0W? 0W-30 Castrol Syntec (GC) and 0W-40 M1 both have decently high z and p for a passenger car these days. I believe 1000 ppm zinc and 800-900 ppm phosphorous on average. And from some of the posts I've seen, I don't want to hear any arguing that 0W-30 is 'too thin' compared to a 5W-30.
How about trying QS HM 5w30/red bottle ?
40 cSt 70.8
100 cSt 12
HT/HS 3.4
.
Going to use it in gf's frontier p/u next OC.
Will send in a VOA soon, to see what
goodies are inside. No certs or API donut.
The Slick 50 is in much smaller print in the
newer stock. I saw bottles of 5w20, and there
was no mention of Slick 50 anywhere on them.
.
But the clincher was the red and green quarts
in the Quaker State display. Now that put me in the
Christmas spirit ! How could a BITOGER resist ?
40 cSt 70.8
100 cSt 12
HT/HS 3.4
.
Going to use it in gf's frontier p/u next OC.
Will send in a VOA soon, to see what
goodies are inside. No certs or API donut.
The Slick 50 is in much smaller print in the
newer stock. I saw bottles of 5w20, and there
was no mention of Slick 50 anywhere on them.
.
But the clincher was the red and green quarts
in the Quaker State display. Now that put me in the
Christmas spirit ! How could a BITOGER resist ?
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Looks like the HM pennzoil is not just a "thicker" PYB - its a whole 'nother, ho-hum, animal without the 100ppm Boron. Back to square 1.
I did a recent UOA and it said my 5W30 QSGB had 151ppm boron, 40ppm moly and pretty high phosphorus levels for an SM oil. It wasn't a virgin oil sample but the fact it had those level after use is more impressive.
Did you run it for at least 2 OCI's before the UOA? If not you are not getting the most accurate info about the oil you used.
Yes at least two previous, probably many more than 2 with the QS.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Looks like the HM pennzoil is not just a "thicker" PYB - its a whole 'nother, ho-hum, animal without the 100ppm Boron. Back to square 1.
I did a recent UOA and it said my 5W30 QSGB had 151ppm boron, 40ppm moly and pretty high phosphorus levels for an SM oil. It wasn't a virgin oil sample but the fact it had those level after use is more impressive.
Did you run it for at least 2 OCI's before the UOA? If not you are not getting the most accurate info about the oil you used.
Yes at least two previous, probably many more than 2 with the QS.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
If your even thinking about running a Group 1 oil in either of your cars I have lost all hope for you.
Absolutely NOT looking for grp I, wanting to be comfortable that any GF3/sj/sl/ marketed today (for house branded oils) would be group II/II+, Just guessing that is all base stock suppliers would provide for PCMO blending - or that's all thats coming out of the towers other than the byproducts of wax, asphalt, upper volatiles - and a little side business for MMO's polar naphthene
If your even thinking about running a Group 1 oil in either of your cars I have lost all hope for you.
Absolutely NOT looking for grp I, wanting to be comfortable that any GF3/sj/sl/ marketed today (for house branded oils) would be group II/II+, Just guessing that is all base stock suppliers would provide for PCMO blending - or that's all thats coming out of the towers other than the byproducts of wax, asphalt, upper volatiles - and a little side business for MMO's polar naphthene
There are still Group 1 bases being made, and if someone is sell just a GF3, API SJ/SL oil it would easily be made from Group 1 base stocks. Group 1's are still use in a lot of hydraulic oils and gear oils. So it's out there.
I just came back from Lowes' and looked at the oils near the snowblowers. Thay had a Briggs full synthetic 5w-30 with NO api or ILSAC cert; then they had a MTD 5w-30 with a SJ rating. labeling states it is made to Brigg's standards and specs - looking at the last SAE30 VOA, that MTD might have some hefty ZDDP; I would worry about the bastock quality on it though. I guess it's MTD MSDS search time .... .
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Is there a Briggs and Stratton VOA on the forum? Without one I wouldn't be so sure that it or any non SM oil would have higher zddp. Most of Briggs engines aren't even overhead valve and probably don't need that much zddp. MTD does have a lot of Honda engines they use though.
Putting zddp levels aside, still SM has better valvetrain wear standards than the previous standards I think. I think the only way a higher zddp level would matter much now is if it was also SM like an HDEO. and waht about all the boron and moly the QS I mentioned earlier had?
Funny you mentioned Lowes and snow throwers. I just got a Troy-built (MTD) one from there. And you know what oil I'm putting in it? PYB 5W30. Actually I've put it in a Briggs & Stratton in a pinch and it worked fine although I do prefer 10W30 or 30W for them.
Putting zddp levels aside, still SM has better valvetrain wear standards than the previous standards I think. I think the only way a higher zddp level would matter much now is if it was also SM like an HDEO. and waht about all the boron and moly the QS I mentioned earlier had?
Funny you mentioned Lowes and snow throwers. I just got a Troy-built (MTD) one from there. And you know what oil I'm putting in it? PYB 5W30. Actually I've put it in a Briggs & Stratton in a pinch and it worked fine although I do prefer 10W30 or 30W for them.
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if you really wanted to, you could buy a premium conventional 5W-30 and add 4oz of Redline break in additive to get +450 phos and +550 zn in 5 qts.
3oz would be +340 phos +400 zn in 5 qts or 1200/1100 zn/phos in 800/700 SM oils
3oz would be +340 phos +400 zn in 5 qts or 1200/1100 zn/phos in 800/700 SM oils
Any 5W30 that is Cx diesel rated will not be bound to the SM/GF-4 limits. Thatdoes not mean they will all have high ZDDP and suchh but it is a starting point.
Personely I think you might as well have asked for high ester content oil for $3 a quart as unlikely as you are to get what you want. No demand in your area for a 5W30 non-SM or GF3/4 oil.You culd try Swepco,Schaffer's,Cempeco etc.... then look to see if a distributor in the area has that monster in stock. I am guessing that theirhas to be a minning or other industrial use for an oil like you seek but you are niave to think you will find it on a retail shelf!
I laughed as I read your post and requirment to be able to get it within 20 miles of your log cabiN!!!! I thought it as likely as me finding a French Super Model with a degree in rocket science living in mid-Michigan looking to be my mistress!
Personely I think you might as well have asked for high ester content oil for $3 a quart as unlikely as you are to get what you want. No demand in your area for a 5W30 non-SM or GF3/4 oil.You culd try Swepco,Schaffer's,Cempeco etc.... then look to see if a distributor in the area has that monster in stock. I am guessing that theirhas to be a minning or other industrial use for an oil like you seek but you are niave to think you will find it on a retail shelf!
I laughed as I read your post and requirment to be able to get it within 20 miles of your log cabiN!!!! I thought it as likely as me finding a French Super Model with a degree in rocket science living in mid-Michigan looking to be my mistress!
I'm trying to find out more about the MTD/Yardmachine 5w-30 SJ. I think this is a pretty good find! It was manuf by Olympic oil in Il, then Olympic was acquired by another company. The website is offline and the MSDS from Aubachon Hardware Supplier is a SAE30wt. Safe to assume it is at minimum a grp i/ii blend with .1% phos.
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
I laughed as I read your post and requirment to be able to get it within 20 miles of your log cabiN!!!! I thought it as likely as me finding a French Super Model with a degree in rocket science living in mid-Michigan looking to be my mistress!
I thought I was pretty lucky to find the 10w-30 rotella cj-4 at 2 stores within 10 miles of my cabin. I'm up in a small farming territory and also within 20 miles of the Atlantic. We have a giant Kubota tractor distributor just down the street and a lot of marina and yacht repair neaby. I have the Portsmouth Naval shipyard within 20 miles too. Maybe Im putting too much on the zddp AND the 5W. I suppoose I can do a 5w30 formula shell and rotella 10w-30 50-50 blend. IIRC they blend very well. Then I can keep two service books - the one I show to the dealer (who insists on 5w-30, and the other for my own info
BTW, I'm all set on the french aeronautics mistress - they are ALL over the place in the gin joints around here. The hard part is finding the HD 5w-30 oil!
I laughed as I read your post and requirment to be able to get it within 20 miles of your log cabiN!!!! I thought it as likely as me finding a French Super Model with a degree in rocket science living in mid-Michigan looking to be my mistress!
I thought I was pretty lucky to find the 10w-30 rotella cj-4 at 2 stores within 10 miles of my cabin. I'm up in a small farming territory and also within 20 miles of the Atlantic. We have a giant Kubota tractor distributor just down the street and a lot of marina and yacht repair neaby. I have the Portsmouth Naval shipyard within 20 miles too. Maybe Im putting too much on the zddp AND the 5W. I suppoose I can do a 5w30 formula shell and rotella 10w-30 50-50 blend. IIRC they blend very well. Then I can keep two service books - the one I show to the dealer (who insists on 5w-30, and the other for my own info
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Add some ZDDP additive to whatever 5W-30 dino you want.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
... The hard part is finding the HD 5w-30 oil!
Castrol makes a syn HDEO 5W-30. I've seen it at local parts stores in Virgina...
Castrol Elixion 5W-30
... The hard part is finding the HD 5w-30 oil!
Castrol makes a syn HDEO 5W-30. I've seen it at local parts stores in Virgina...
Castrol Elixion 5W-30
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Nickd- Talking dino - syn is no problem.
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