3 drain and fills on my vehicle will get you to 91.2%, FWIW.
In the other thread you stated:Probably, @The Critic needs to see this as well. He is an unbeliever and mistakenly thinks that I have something against him or I don't know my ATFs. I don't have anything against him, and I do know my ATFs.
Thank you for posting. The additive package looks identical to Mobil 1 LV ATF HP (Dexron HP) and HPL Blue/Green ATF. Which means it also uses the same friction modification chemistry and anti wear package.
You are 100% correct. However, the friction modification chemistry is part of the additive package. You cannot separate the two. I can't tell any variance in the elemental levels of the fluids I listed. Based on personal experience with these fluids, they all share the same friction modification chemistry.Anyone with the slightest clue about ATF's will understand that the friction modification chemistry cannot be identified (and revealed) via an UOA.
For the 2016 RAM 1500 I got a PPE Aluminum Oil Pan, which holds 2 extra quarts of oil. I switched once from to all AMSOIL ATL, and hated the shift quality, it was way to firm, and exposed all the shortcomings of the transmission, being a first gen 8HP70, like the rough 1-2 shift on the first start of the day when it's really cold outside, or when coming to a stop it does a harsh 2-1 shift on the downcoast because it leaves the torque convertor clutch engaged down to the first shift, all of which is stupid programing for best fuel economy. Anyway, the extra 2 quarts allowed me to replace 95% of the fluid. Finally, I switched the 8HP70 to Mobil 1 LV ATF HP and couldn't be happier. I also considered TES-668, but didn't have a VOA at the time for comparison.3 drain and fills on my vehicle will get you to 91.2%, FWIW.
Fair, but again, you're focused on the metallic additives that are detectable. There are other components that are not metallic that may be part of the FM package.I can't tell any variance in the elemental levels of the fluids I listed. Based on personal experience with these fluids, they all share the same friction modification chemistry.
Fair enough, however, you would see some variance in the DI package if the friction modification chemistry would be different, as it's tied to the additive package in more than one way. For example, in MT fluid for manual transaxles you see lots of Calcium and Magnesium, as that's part of the friction modification chemistry. I old Valvoline MaxLife (pre-2020), Red Line D6 and AMSOIL ATL, you see identical amounts of Phosphorus, Calcium, and Boron. I've used both Red Line and AMSOIL and they both share the same firm shifting characteristics. My point: you would see a variance in the elementals, or additional elementals, if there was a variance in the friction modification chemistry of the fluids I listed. However, there is no reason for Infineum to make any changes, as they dialed it in perfectly.Fair, but again, you're focused on the metallic additives that are detectable. There are other components that are not metallic that may be part of the FM package.
I do have 4 gal of HPL Green that I plan to use at some point, I just have not found an application for it....yet.
The PPE trans pan for the 6R80 only showed coverage for the 2011-17 models, last time I checkedYou are 100% correct. However, the friction modification chemistry is part of the additive package. You cannot separate the two. I can't tell any variance in the elemental levels of the fluids I listed. Based on personal experience with these fluids, they all share the same friction modification chemistry.
I recommend you try one of them, at least. You will be exceedingly happy with the results. Just make sure you replace your old fluid entirely, for the best possible outcome.
For the 2016 RAM 1500 I got a PPE Aluminum Oil Pan, which holds 2 extra quarts of oil. I switched once from to all AMSOIL ATL, and hated the shift quality, it was way to firm, and exposed all the shortcomings of the transmission, being a first gen 8HP70, like the rough 1-2 shift on the first start of the day when it's really cold outside, or when coming to a stop it does a harsh 2-1 shift on the downcoast because it leaves the torque convertor clutch engaged down to the first shift, all of which is stupid programing for best fuel economy. Anyway, the extra 2 quarts allowed me to replace 95% of the fluid. Finally, I switched the 8HP70 to Mobil 1 LV ATF HP and couldn't be happier. I also considered TES-668, but didn't have a VOA at the time for comparison.
In the Hyundai, I can overfill the transmission by 1 quart, that's how I can get out nearly everything and replace 98%. I overfill the first 2 times and only drive for 5 miles each time with the transmission cold. The last time I fill it up correctly.
The ZF 8HP70 is impossible to overfill by any meaningful amount, maybe 2-3 ounces, at best.
I hope this helps.
I know this poster is no longer with us but there are some corrections that are needed.Fair enough, however, you would see some variance in the DI package if the friction modification chemistry would be different, as it's tied to the additive package in more than one way. For example, in MT fluid for manual transaxles you see lots of Calcium and Magnesium, as that's part of the friction modification chemistry. I old Valvoline MaxLife (pre-2020), Red Line D6 and AMSOIL ATL, you see identical amounts of Phosphorus, Calcium, and Boron. I've used both Red Line and AMSOIL and they both share the same firm shifting characteristics. My point: you would see a variance in the elementals, or additional elementals, if there was a variance in the friction modification chemistry of the fluids I listed. However, there is no reason for Infineum to make any changes, as they dialed it in perfectly.
Amsoil blue cap in a ZF8 in a BMWX1 (N20) and no issue at all. This was a multiple d/f which almost amounted to a flush. No recoding/relearning either. Same for a GM 6 speed in a 2011 BMW. Neither cars are light or non-powerful.You might have drawn some conclusions prematurely. Let me shed light on the actual intricacies of this matter. Friction modification and Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) formulation are indeed the significant aspects of this discourse. Take, for example, my experience with AMSOIL ATL (blue cap). I have utilized it in multiple Hyundai transmissions and a ZF 8 Speed. Yet, the only transmission that functioned effectively was the 6-speed in my now sold 2018 Santa Fe Sport. The seemingly satisfactory operation was solely due to the modest 2.4L NA engine struggling to move a hefty SUV. Its torque was insufficient to induce a shift jerk. However, my other two vehicles, boasting 300 HP and 400 HP engines respectively, performed poorly with AMSOIL. Each shift was notably firm and clunky.
In contrast, when I replaced the fluid in the 2017 Santa Fe with a 300 HP engine, and in the 2016 RAM 1500 with Mobil 1 LV ATF HP, a fluid boasting the advanced Infineum additive package, the results were dramatic. HPL employs a comparable additive, yet their formulation integrates pricier base oils and co-bases. Consequently, the shifts were smooth and defined, devoid of any hesitation or slippage. No clunkiness or jerking in sight. AMSOIL, with its Lubrizol-supplied ATF recipe, simply didn't measure up.
Once upon a time, advocating for lower viscosities was logical. However, today's focus seems to have shifted toward a marginal fuel economy increase, aiming to achieve a minuscule quarter of a percent per truck, then multiplying this across their annual sales in the millions. This strategy undoubtedly boosts their profits, but often at the expense of the owner's vehicle reliability. The switch from LV to ULV primarily benefits the manufacturer's bottom line, neglecting the consumer's best interests.
In sum, the crux of this matter is the friction modification chemistry, overshadowing the viscosity aspect. HPL indeed manufactures some of the finest and most compatible ATF in the industry, even offering an ULV version known as "ATF Teal." However, rest assured, running ATF Green or Green CC in a 10-speed transmission should pose no issues.
WOW, that's interesting. 7.38cst is not just a little thicker than Mercon ULV. It's two-thirds thicker. Wish we had more data points like this.Here's my experience with the 10R80 in the 2017 ford f150. I threw all of the misconceptions or people's hesitation out of the window and went forward using MAG1 #915 in the unit. (I ran three, 5 gallon buckets through the system, including a pan filter drop and added a transmission filter in line, Baldwin BT8316 with mounting kit and used the flush machine) Now mind you, this is a truck used in a fleet with over 115k miles. Mag1 runs a Viscosity @ 100°C cSt 7.38 value. Running a little thicker than the stock motorcraft Mercon ULV. I changed that fluid around 50k because it was being used to tow and rent. I have had no problems whatsoever, however I know it's due for another change, soon. The fluid remains red. I've noticed shudder went away, shifts are not noticeable unless you're manually shifting from the stalk. Temps are down. Usually stick between 140°-190°F. Before it used to be 198°F-220°F.