Let’s change the “thick vs. thin” up a little: Mercon LV vs ULV!

So why doesn't GM spec the Dex HP for the big new HD 10 speeds? The trucks they're in aren't subject to any CAFE rules. The customers who buy them are way more concerned with durability than a tenth of a MPG. They sure went to a lot of trouble putting massive coolers on the trucks and programming in a warm up drag (the trans fluid heats up faster than the engine at start up). Seems to me like GM sure cares about viscosity.

As for the fleet guy, he listened to his oil supplier who (wrongly) recommended the fluid, a fluid sold as a fits all (with a D6 lic). Many fluid providers still do this (Big A incl) for this particular transmission.
 
PiperOne said:
So why doesn't GM spec the Dex HP for the big new HD 10 speeds? The trucks they're in aren't subject to any CAFE rules.
Click to expand...

Right... then, what's this? ⬇️

1685323794779.jpg
 
Well obviously the change from LV (6cSt) to ULV (4.5cSt) was in the name of increased drive line efficiency but the additive chemistry was enhanced such that we had to incorporate new Anti-Wear and Friction Modification chemistry along with higher percentages of Group IV and V base oils in the final formulation.
 
MolaKule said:
Well obviously the change from LV (6cSt) to ULV (4.5cSt) was in the name of increased drive line efficiency but the additive chemistry was enhanced such that we had to incorporate new Anti-Wear and Friction Modification chemistry along with higher percentages of Group IV and V base oils in the final formulation.
Click to expand...
Is a MV DI package that is ULV compatible also backwards compatible with Dexron 6, Dexron III, and so on, as far as anti wear additives and friction modification chemistry are concerned?
 
The Critic said:
CAFE rules apply to vehicles with a GVWR that is under 8500 lbs.

one.nhtsa.gov

CAFE Public Information Center | NHTSA

NHTSA’s Corporate Average Fuel Economy Public Information Center is a resource to obtain information on fuel consumption programs.
one.nhtsa.gov one.nhtsa.gov
Click to expand...
That's neither here or there. He argued that GM's 10-speed isn't affected by CAFE regulations. That monroney sticker is of a different opinion.
 
Rod Knock said:
Is a MV DI package that is ULV compatible also backwards compatible with Dexron 6, Dexron III, and son, as far as anti wear additives and friction modification chemistry are concerned?
Click to expand...
Well, it could be. Extensive analysis would determine if the compatibility is there.
 
MolaKule said:
Well, it could be. Extensive analysis would determine if the compatibility is there.
Click to expand...
Or it could be by design, right? Like certain MV DI packages that Infineum and Lubrizol offer. A blender will not purchase three different additive packages to blend three different ATF viscosities. Instead, they will buy one additive package that has wide compatibility with most step-shift automatic transmissions.
 
ctechbob said:
@meep has experience in his 10R80 with a thicker fluid, it was not great.

Viscosity seems to be important in the 10 speed units as it has a pretty big effect on their shift timings. There are 6 clutches and solenoids in there that need to do a fair bit of gymnastics to pull off smooth shifts and it looks like thicker fluids slow that down enough to make things clunky. (Mine is a little clunky when it is cold out, but smooths out greatly when its at operating temp. This tells me enough about higher viscosities and shift timings that I don't want to mess with it)

Also, this being BITOG, I assume everyone is going to throw the 150k OCI right out the window. I do 10k D&F's and will stick with that as long as I own the truck.

I'm sticking with ULV's in my 10R80. Everything with mine is working as it should and I see no reason to mess with that. Even towing as heavy as I do my temps are well under control and the trans does what it is supposed to. I've so far used the Valvoline product, but it has shot up in price and I picked up a stash of Mercon. After that I'll probably go with HPL and stretch the OCI out some.

I am adding a PPE pan though in the next couple months, just for the drain plug, since sucking the fluid out is a bit of a pain.
Click to expand...
I am eyeballing the PPE deep pan as well. Have you bought yours yet?
 
4WD said:
Mine calls for ULV - can’t think of but one reason, right ?
Click to expand...
CAFE

[Edit]

I never said anything bad about ULV. My point was that it's not the viscosity of the fluid that matters for the 10-speed transmissions, as much as it is the friction modification chemistry and ATF formulation.
 
MolaKule said:
Well obviously the change from LV (6cSt) to ULV (4.5cSt) was in the name of increased drive line efficiency but the additive chemistry was enhanced such that we had to incorporate new Anti-Wear and Friction Modification chemistry along with higher percentages of Group IV and V base oils in the final formulation.
Click to expand...
So, in your opinion, if the same AW/FM that is used in the ULV is used in an LV-viscosity fluid, would this have satisfied all other requirements that you had to achieve with the final formulation?
 
PiperOne said:
That's the sticker from a half ton. I believe I mentioned HD (2500 and 3500 trucks in case you didn't know) half a dozen times, and that's the only trucks I'm talking about....and they are not CAFE units.
Click to expand...
Are they using the same 10-speed unit as the half ton 1500 trucks?
 
Rod Knock said:
Or it could be by design, right? Like certain MV DI packages that Infineum and Lubrizol offer. A blender will not purchase three different additive packages to blend three different ATF viscosities. Instead, they will buy one additive package that has wide compatibility with most step-shift automatic transmissions.
Click to expand...
You don't mix DI ATF additive packages, ever. Some DI ATF additive packages are for MV applications, some are suited for LV, and others for ULV, but they are disparate DI additive packages.
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
I am eyeballing the PPE deep pan as well. Have you bought yours yet?
Click to expand...
I'm going to do just the regular pan. Haven't bought it yet, probably will in the next couple weeks. Waiting for some more Amazon points to rack up. I was going to do it at 60k, but I'm approaching 40, and I have the filter on hand, I might as well do it and get it done.

There's a guy on the Ranger forum that's doing a bespoke dipstick for us, that will hopefully come in slightly under the B&M $220 piece as well, but come pre-calibrated, so I want to do that as well, but I don't think he's going to have them done by then.
 
MolaKule said:
You don't mix DI additive ATF packages, ever.
Click to expand...
I did not say anything about mixing.

MolaKule said:
Some DI additive ATF packages are for MV applications, some are suited for LV, and others for ULV, but they are disparate DI additive packages.
Click to expand...
That depends on the MV additive package. Otherwise we wouldn't have things like Valvoline MaxLife that's backwards compatible with older transmissions calling for Dexron III-era fluids. Infineum makes at least one additive package for step shift automatic transmissions that's compatible across the board, all the way down to ULV.
 
ctechbob said:
I'm going to do just the regular pan. Haven't bought it yet, probably will in the next couple weeks. Waiting for some more Amazon points to rack up. I was going to do it at 60k, but I'm approaching 40, and I have the filter on hand, I might as well do it and get it done.

There's a guy on the Ranger forum that's doing a bespoke dipstick for us, that will hopefully come in slightly under the B&M $220 piece as well, but come pre-calibrated, so I want to do that as well, but I don't think he's going to have them done by then.
Click to expand...
Where did you get your filter from and how much did it run?

I would like a dipstick too, but there’s zero chance in Hades I’m going to pay 2 Benjamin’s for one. IMO, if a trans isn’t leaking, a transmission does not consume trans fluid, so if the level is set properly at the service time, you should be OK. 👍🏻
 
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