Latest BR Video Comparing 3 OEM Oil Filters & Bosch

[Reloader59]

Unless someone comes up with actual wear data between the Toyota filters and other filters, I will continue to believe that Toyota filters in no way cause more engine wear.

 

[jeepman3071]

Unless someone comes up with actual wear data between the Toyota filters and other filters, I will continue to believe that Toyota filters in no way cause more engine wear.

I would use them with confidence. The quality of construction is most important IMO. I used Wix filters for years until I started having issues with them leaking after the brand takeover.

 

[Mewbs]

Watched the video last night. I find it funny they calling themselves engineers without full understanding of various oil filter designs. Their AC Delco commentary is just straight out embarrassing.

Also lol on them calling the Toyota bypass valve rubber, its actually some kind of fiberglass reinforced plastic knowing that I have cut open a hand full of them.

Their trending of clickbait thumbnails and video titles is really giving off the image of another view farming for ad revenue channel. The filter ranking is very confusing at best.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Watched the video last night. I find it funny they calling themselves engineers without full understanding of various oil filter designs. Their AC Delco commentary is just straight out embarrassing.

If they read the BITOG Oil Filter forum more, they'd know that some GM engines use a filter bypass valve built into the engine filter mount, and therefore filters for those engines don't have a bypass valve.

Also lol on them calling the Toyota bypass valve rubber, its actually some kind of fiberglass reinforced plastic knowing that I have cut open a hand full of them.

I picked up on that too. I read some of the funny comments on that video, and others too ... some people making comments are way off in the weeds on their understanding of oil filters, lol. Good for some chuckles I guess.

 

[DuckRyder]

I think there is enough verification that the old Amsoil test is pretty accurate. The Toyota and Honda filters they tested haven't changed appreciably and the data Motoring shared was very close. I also spoke to him one time and he said that he really couldn't say a lot, but generally Japanese auto manufacturers tended to place a lower importance on efficiency. We didn't get into it further than that, but as Fram is an OEM for Subaru and Honda he probably knew what the RFP specified.

Interesting side note the much sought and highly vaunted Honda A01 filter is very similar to the Toyota filter, suspect its efficiency is below the unloved A02.

Wear - this is one of those things where "what should be" and "what is" are not necessarily the same thing with a healthy topping of "does it matter".

By the time the hypothesis was tested in a legitimate and non-accelerated manner the results would probably no longer be relevant.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There is a simple step to take to ensure cleaner oil and therefore less wear - regardless of how much less wear, because less wear is still less wear. That step is to use a higher efficiency oil filter than not, which I define as any oil filter with 95% @ 20u efficiency or better. That would also equate to around 99% @ 25u or better. Using a higher efficiency oil filter hurts nothing, and ensures better filtration to cover all the unknowns - like how well is my air filter sealing and filtering. If something gets by the air filter and into the oil via ring blow-by, then the oil filter is the only thing left to remove that debris. What could be more simple than that?

 

[Sayjac]

If they read the BITOG Oil Filter forum more, they'd know that some GM engines use a filter bypass valve built into the engine filter mount, and therefore filters for those engines don't have a bypass valve......

Obviously, that's a true statement. However, it applies to the ACDelco PF53 in the BR "test"vid, that one does have a bypass, it's in the form of a combo valve (baseplate not shown). Even though not shown, I'm quite confident that is the design, just not recognized by BR. But can be seen in other PF53 ecore dissections here and elsewhere.

As for statement on the much-liked Honda A01 as opposed to the A02, I won't speculate that it's closer to the Toyota OEM efficiency, except to say, I doubt it is any "better" than the A02 ISO test results.

 

[DGXR]

High capacity, high efficiency, low cost -- pick two. It appears that the Toyota OEM oil filters favor capacity and low cost over efficiency? If I found an oil filter with all three, I would not run it... low cost production typically sacrifices something (quality control).

 

[ZeeOSix]

High capacity, high efficiency, low cost -- pick two. It appears that the Toyota OEM oil filters favor capacity and low cost over efficiency?

As mentioned in another thread ( HERE ) about the BR testing, I mentioned this:
"Just because BR added 13 grams in the test to make the Toyota filter increase the dP by 8 PSI doesn't mean the filter caught all 13 grams. But on the other hand, if the filter was not bypassing dirty oil (which is possible), then the filter efficiency of the media itself is so bad that it took that much dust build-up in the media to increase the dP by 8 PSI."

A "high capacity" filter that has horrible efficiency isn't really a good thing. If it only catches 50% of particles 20u and larger then it's allowing a lot of particles to recirculate over and over through the oiling system. The BR particle count numbers also reflect that. The filter might appear to be "high capacity", but in reality it just has horrible efficiency. Another thing I pointed out is I didn't see how the BR testing accounts for the amount of test dust left in test oil when the test filter reaches the +8 PSI dP test cut-off point. So if they added 13 grams of test dust, it could be that only a portion of that amount of dust was actually captured in the filter by the time the dP increased by 8 PSI.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Obviously, that's a true statement. However, it applies to the ACDelco PF53 in the BR "test"vid, that one does have a bypass, it's in the form of a combo valve (baseplate not shown). Even though not shown, I'm quite confident that is the design, just not recognized by BR. But can be seen in other PF53 ecore dissections here and elsewhere.

Ah yes, good catch on that Sayjac.

 

[Kantaro]

I see. It would be interesting to hear from Toyota why they targeted this filter performance.

For whatever it's worth:

Toyota OEM Oil Filter Efficiency

Well, I am gonna open up a can of worms. I may be criticized and made fun of but that's ok. Check out what I found out about Toyota's OEM filter efficiency. I have access to an Engineer at Toyota as he comes to my church when he is in town. He works in US and has been to Japan several times. I...

bobistheoilguy.com

I find it believable that manufacturer would opt for a cheaper filter if it still meets their specifications.

 

[Mewbs]

I enjoyed the video and give credit for their work. I have a Toyota and will continue to use their filters. I think people here overthink everything. I personally feel particle size and for the quantity of them in the oil is not as concerning as you would think. Most will be under suspension anyway. I'll take the flow and filtration capacity over the particle size. What's a couple hundred millionths anyway?

Analysis paralysis can be fun sometimes.

 

[Reloader59]

Analysis paralysis can be fun sometimes.

I will state again, Unless someone comes up with actual wear data between the Toyota filters and other filters, I will continue to believe that Toyota filters in no way cause more engine wear.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I will state again, Unless someone comes up with actual wear data between the Toyota filters and other filters, I will continue to believe that Toyota filters in no way cause more engine wear.

Dirtier oil (all other factors constant), means there is some more wear going on -every wear study condcudes that. As mentioned many times, the OCI mileage is a big factor on the oil filter's impact on the over-all oil cleanliness. Only two ways to keep the oil clean - filter it, or change it. The shorter the OCI, the less the filter efficiency matters. I wouldn't want to run a 50% @ 20u filter over 5K miles vs a 95% @ 20u or better filter.

 

[Reloader59]

Dirtier oil (all other factors constant), means there is some more wear going on -every wear study condcudes that. As mentioned many times, the OCI mileage is a big factor on the oil filter's impact on the over-all oil cleanliness. Only two ways to keep the oil clean - filter it, or change it. The shorter the OCI, the less the filter efficiency matters. I wouldn't want to run a 50% @ 20u filter over 5K miles vs a 95% @ 20u or better filter.

Dirty oil? What's dirty oil? The last time I did an oil analysis I had no indication of dirt and oil still looked light brown. At my 5k oil change I had below average wear metals for a new engine. Just because larger particles may be present doesn't mean they cause wear.
Too much emphasis is put on particle size.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Dirty oil? What's dirty oil? The last time I did an oil analysis I had no indication of dirt and oil still looked light brown. At my 5k oil change I had below average wear metals for a new engine. Just because larger particles may be present doesn't mean they cause wear.
Too much emphasis is put on particle size.

Look at ISO particle counts. A standard UOA doesn't really measure how contaminated the oil is without a particle count. And the "% Insolubles" is worthless. If you try to correlate "% Insolubles" to an ISO PC, there is no correlation at all. I'd trust a PC way before "% Insolubles". You have to add a PC as a separate test to the UOA. You can't see 20u particle with your eyes (hardly even 40-50u particles with 20/20 vision), and you can't tell how clean it is particulate wise by the color, lol. And as shown in wear studies, it's the particles that are around 20u and smaller that do most of the wear - it's not the larger particles like you say.

The wear metals measured in a standard UOA like Blackstone uses only measures particles around 5u and smaller. That really tells you nothing, especially with a UOA of only 5K miles on the oil. It's like looking through a straw at the world, and a UOA like that is very insensitive to changes going on in the motor. Plus, you'd have to do UOAs from the day the engine was new and track them all to even get an idea if something is starting to going wrong because of wear. Too much emphasis is put on standard UOA and using them to measure wear on a short OCI. Go do some reading on engine wear vs oil cleanliness ... there are many studies on the subject matter.

 

[Reloader59]

Look at ISO particle counts. A standard UOA doesn't really measure how contaminated the oil is without a particle count. And the "% Insolubles" is worthless. If you try to correlate "% Insolubles" to an ISO PC, there is no correlation at all. I'd trust a PC way before "% Insolubles". You have to add a PC as a separate test to the UOA. You can't see 20u particle with your eyes (hardly even 40-50u particles with 20/20 vision), and you can't tell how clean it is particulate wise by the color, lol. And as shown in wear studies, it's the particles that are around 20u and smaller that do most of the wear - it's not the larger particles like you say.

The wear metals measured in a standard UOA like Blackstone uses only measures particles around 5u and smaller. That really tells you nothing, especially with a UOA of only 5K miles on the oil. It's like looking through a straw at the world, and a UOA like that is very insensitive to changes going on in the motor. Plus, you'd have to do UOAs from the day the engine was new and track them all to even get an idea if something is starting to going wrong because of wear. Too much emphasis is put on standard UOA and using them to measure wear on a short OCI. Go do some reading on engine wear vs oil cleanliness ... there are many studies on the subject matter.

I did and again I haven't seen a test where a particular oil filter caused more wear than another.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I did and again I haven't seen a test where a particular oil filter caused more wear than another.

In the Cummings wear study, they show with in-field testing how the wear increased when a less efficient oil filter was used. Again, the bottom line is a more efficient oil filter will keep the oil cleaner which will result in less wear with all other factors held constant. There is no study on earth that will conclude otherwise.