KATRINA VEHICLES HEADSUP 18 DEC 2006

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Unwary dealers get Katrina cars


Arlena Sawyers
Automotive News
December 18, 2006



Up to 13,500 vehicles with titles branded as damaged by Hurricane Katrina have been moved to other states and now have clean titles.

Those vehicles were among 200,000 cars and trucks that were damaged when Katrina soaked New Orleans and other parts of Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi in 2005. At the time, those vehicles had their titles branded as flood- or storm-damaged.

Approximately 20,000 to 30,000 damaged vehicles were moved to other states, according to a recently released survey by Experian Automotive. Forty-five percent of those vehicles were given new titles that do not indicate their flood damage, and that percentage may grow.

"As more vehicles move, more will get retitled over time," says Dave Nemtuda, director of AutoCheck solutions for Experian, a Chicago supplier of vehicle history data. "There is the propensity for that number to grow."

Those numbers send a worrisome signal to consumer watchdogs who fear that dealers and consumers may unwittingly purchase used vehicles damaged by Hurricane Katrina. They contend that a vehicle's title should indicate whether it has been salvaged.





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Titles washed away
17 states do not record the "salvaged vehicle" title designations for out-of-state cars and trucks.
1 Arizona 7 Maine 13 North Dakota
2 Arkansas 8 Michigan 14 Ohio
3 California 9 Mississippi 15 Rhode Island
4 Illinois 10 Missouri 16 Texas
5 Indiana 11 New Jersey 17 Vermont
6 Kentucky 12 New York
Note: Minnesota does not carry forward "salvaged vehicle" designations for cars and trucks that are more than 5 years old.
Source: National Automobile Dealers Association




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A title brand refers to words on a vehicle's title issued by a state motor vehicle department that note its condition. Vehicles damaged by Hurricane Katrina may carry one of several brands such as "Scrapped," "Junk," "Water Damage," "Salvage" or "Storm Damage-Katrina."

Flood-damaged vehicles generally are worth only half as much as used cars and trucks in good condition. Uscrupulous rebuilders sometimes repair salvaged vehicles, then obtain clean titles by moving them out of state.

They choose states that do not transfer the "salvage" designation from the titles of out-of-state vehicles. In some states, the rebuilders can obtain clean titles for rebuilt vehicles that pass an inspection.

To estimate the scope of this trend, Experian identified 200,000 vehicles in ZIP codes affected by Hurricane Katrina with titles indicating they were damaged in the storm. Then it traced those vehicles that were moved out of state and calculated the number that were given clean titles.

'A no-brainer'

In July, Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., introduced legislation to require insurance companies to help maintain a national database that identifies all vehicles the insurers have written off as a total loss. The information would be available to vehicle buyers.

The National Automobile Dealers Association endorsed the legislation. Congress took no action.

On Dec. 7, Lott said he will reintroduce the legislation with the new Congress.

The legislation is "truly a no-brainer for consumer protection," says Dale Willey, the incoming NADA chairman and owner of Dale Willey Automotive in Lawrence, Kan.

He says: "I'm disappointed that Congress hasn't embraced it."



The potential abuse here is enormous and Congress yet again drops the ball . Regardless of what if any action is taken at a later date and regardless of what state you reside in I'd be real careful with used purchases of anything that rolls on two wheels or more
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You may want to read their copyright notice...

Entire contents ©2007 Crain Communications, Inc.
Use of editorial content without permission is strictly prohibited. All Rights Reserved.
 
"Fair Use" doctrine is not set in dried cement.

Generally, especially when non-profit motives are involved, one can generally "copy and paste" a "non-substantial" portion of a copyrighted work and provide a link to the remainder of the writing.

Most Web sites do not mind the link, especially if that site either sells ad space or has links upon it that the site owners hope you will click on.

A lotta' debate about this topic over the years and there is no general concensus amongst the unwashed masses. Neither is there a definitive legal proclamation regarding the parameters of fair use provisions in the bewilderingly lengthy statutes covering copyright goodies.

One esteemed astute learned yahoo wrote awhile back that, usually, copying a paragraph or two of a one full page or longer article and including a link, especially if the copying is at a not-for-profit Web site, is within the fair use doctrine and that the odds of any problems occuring are extremely remote.

Writing of less than one page should generally have only a couple sentences copied along with a link to the article's page.

I have no way to verify the above since I am relying upon the memories of many hours of reading about this topic over the last few years. There's a horde of stuff on the Web about this topic and the debate continues.
 
I've been seeing a lot of "flood damaged" cars on craigslist. Some have been listed as such, others have just had ridiculously low asking prices.
 
The problem doesn't go away until the vehicles are properly relabeled/retitled , " refurbished " ,
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or taken off the road .
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Thinking outloud ;
Why/how is this even allowed to be an issue ? " Follow the money "
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Agreed .

Also relevant ; no prohibitions/copyright claims attached or on site from either Crains or Center For Auto Safety .
If this is a matter of bad etiquette please advise .
 
Re fair use and copyright:

I'm not a lawyer and not trying to give legal advice, but most copyright experts will tell you that under present US law everything is now technically protected by copyright from creation, whether a notice appears or not. The exceptions occur with copying old materials with expired copyrights or with a creator who explicitly renounces his rights in the work: "No copyright. You have permission to reproduce freely," or some such wording. That the piece originally came from Automotive News is a really good indication that it is copyrighted, as this is obviously a commercial journal.

Re the Katrina vehicles:

Isn't it time for national standards for motor vehicle titles to address such issues and minimize fraud? The feds regulate almost every other aspect of vehicles because of their obvious use and impact in interstate commerce, so why not this too? I'm all for "state's rights" up to a point, but in some areas we do need requirements set nationwide. Can you imagine if every state still issued different-sized license plates, as was the case until the feds imposed the 12" x 6" standard some 50 years ago?

I would also favor a national law with stiff penalties requiring cars with a salvage title be scrapped for parts, period. There should not be these recurring cases of flooded vehicles fixed, retitled, and placed back on the road.
 
Re the Katrina vehicles:

Isn't it time for national standards for motor vehicle titles to address such issues and minimize fraud? The feds regulate almost every other aspect of vehicles because of their obvious use and impact in interstate commerce, so why not this too? I'm all for "state's rights" up to a point, but in some areas we do need requirements set nationwide. Can you imagine if every state still issued different-sized license plates, as was the case until the feds imposed the 12" x 6" standard some 50 years ago?

I would also favor a national law with stiff penalties requiring cars with a salvage title be scrapped for parts, period. There should not be these recurring cases of flooded vehicles fixed, retitled, and placed back on the road.




Yes to all of that .
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- as long as an individual could retain the right to own a salvage titled vehicle ( I'm thinking parts car here ) - just not license and drive it on roadways .
 
I must disagree with mandating crushing of salvage-titled cars due to personal property rights. If I can get something worth $7500 rebuilt for $5000 it's worth it to me. That I get a salvage title is already proof enough the car's been through something.

Maybe part of a salvage/rebuilt vehicle should be a new VIN plate like my state does for homemade cars. Like a dollar bill "Star note" that indicates the first one was screwed up at the mint.
 
Well , thats the other case . I dunno
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Constitutional rights/considerations as always first and foremost
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. ( Not much in fashion these days to understand much less read that Document and how important that is or what it means to take an oath to " - preserve and protect " but I do digress . )
Still , there must be a way to provide a higher level of consumer protection . This kind of Title washing is completely UNSAT. . Maybe some sort of rigorous mandatory third party inspection for on road operation ?
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The really interesting thing is which groups over the years have opposed reform .
 
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