do the nascar guys use a filter???
then why not a k&n??
k&n is just like harley, alot of hype..
then why not a k&n??
k&n is just like harley, alot of hype..
k and n
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They are banned in Nascar. Seems there was cheating going on with the cotton fiber filters.
The teams were freezing the filters in liquid nitrogen. Then replacing the air filter just before they left the pits on their qualifying runs. They were not banned for any advantage in HP or filtering. Plus remember every engine is torn down and rebuilt after every race. So at the most those filters are only seeing 500-600 miles of use.
The teams were freezing the filters in liquid nitrogen. Then replacing the air filter just before they left the pits on their qualifying runs. They were not banned for any advantage in HP or filtering. Plus remember every engine is torn down and rebuilt after every race. So at the most those filters are only seeing 500-600 miles of use.
ALS, my point was/is that K&N advertises its self as a performance item..yet i have yet to see anyone use a k&n on any pro well know race team...thats not paid by k&n to do so..
their hype have the butt dyno guys on their side, but the pro's seem to know different..
their hype have the butt dyno guys on their side, but the pro's seem to know different..
You guys read way to much into things. A K&N is an all together better filter then a paper one, whether its 2% less efficient or not. Paper filters are made to be cost effective. Excellent filtration, for next to nothing in cost. You think that theres a bunch of guys sitting around a table thinking about the best filter to keep your engine running strong. No, they are thinking whats the cheapest filter that works.
I am new here and I have read a few posts with people that throw $50 down to get a K&N, Green, or coolblue filter and then post two days later that they removed it because they were afraid. These are all good filters guys. I dont want to sound insulting (because you guys do great work and did in fact find that paper filtered the best) but if you are one of the people who removed there filter 2 days later, you really need to seek help. Thats such an unhealthy way to live your life. I can only imagine how someone like that is with other things in life.
This air filter thing seems to be a mountain you guys just cant cross. Havnt you all realized that if you run a paper or cotton guaze you will never see a difference in engine life, ACTUAL wear damage, or power loss? No one has.
I'm willing to bet some of you have spent $300 on an intake only to take it out a week or a year later. Stock boxes are for sound deadening and harsh weather conditions. Besides the heat it helps to control, theres very little science to it. Gotta get over that mountain too.
I am new here and I have read a few posts with people that throw $50 down to get a K&N, Green, or coolblue filter and then post two days later that they removed it because they were afraid. These are all good filters guys. I dont want to sound insulting (because you guys do great work and did in fact find that paper filtered the best) but if you are one of the people who removed there filter 2 days later, you really need to seek help. Thats such an unhealthy way to live your life. I can only imagine how someone like that is with other things in life.
This air filter thing seems to be a mountain you guys just cant cross. Havnt you all realized that if you run a paper or cotton guaze you will never see a difference in engine life, ACTUAL wear damage, or power loss? No one has.
I'm willing to bet some of you have spent $300 on an intake only to take it out a week or a year later. Stock boxes are for sound deadening and harsh weather conditions. Besides the heat it helps to control, theres very little science to it. Gotta get over that mountain too.
You got it right MonkeyWrench... I use a paper filter because it is cost effective with excellent filtration.
Never have used a K&N, because, well... the information that I have tells me it is pretty much the opposite.
Never have used a K&N, because, well... the information that I have tells me it is pretty much the opposite.
Why to worry if the $30-40 K&N allows more dirt into your engine?
Why to worry if K&N has been properly cleaned and reoiled after it's been serviced?
Why to worry if it conatminates the MAFS with an oil residue?
Why to worry about all those things while the much cheaper paper filters great, flows just fine, doesn't need to be serivced, deosn't allow any kind ot the oil contamination?
K&N's marketing misleads people into buying their expensive product.
Then they find these forums where they get some reality check, get exposed to some real life testing and factual info based on science not the gimmicky marketing.
What they decide to do after that is their call.
They feel misled and rightfully so.
And your point is???
Monkeywrench, the point of this board is to discuss such things, even if your car won't blow up if you use a certain oil or filter. Obviously millions of people have working cars without this board. This board is for those of us who actually care about this stuff. Do I care if I'm wasting my money on bad tasting food because I don't go to a food message board? No, I'm not interested in food, I just eat it. I am interested in car care and oil, so I go to this site instead, and worry about wasting money on air filters.
As far as worrying too about oil filters, that's exactly why I ditch my K&Ns and went back to paper. Cheap, effective and higher quality.
As far as worrying too about oil filters, that's exactly why I ditch my K&Ns and went back to paper. Cheap, effective and higher quality.
MonkeyWrench73, nobody said they were afraid of K&N's. Keith and I have presented scientific data to the BITOG community. I have not read of anyone that removed their K&N after two days. Spending less money on a better filter is certainly not a mental health issue... but you keep talking about crossing mountains. Are you sure you are OK?
I found this interesting:
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=5651
K&N is rated F by the BBB? I was very surprised to see this. They had always been quite responsive when I had dealt with them in the past.
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=5651
K&N is rated F by the BBB? I was very surprised to see this. They had always been quite responsive when I had dealt with them in the past.
Wow!
We strongly question the company’s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law’s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company’s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices.
I didnt mean to insult anyone, like i said before I think this site does some of the best work ive seen on this stuff.
After I have used K&Ns for so long I just couldnt see how they were bad, because I have never had a problem, but I do in fact live in a very clean wet climate.
that BBB is an eye opener.
After I have used K&Ns for so long I just couldnt see how they were bad, because I have never had a problem, but I do in fact live in a very clean wet climate.
that BBB is an eye opener.
Moneywrench, from the UOA's I've seen in even moderately dusty areas, K&N do a demonstrably poor job keeping out the fine stuff. In my vehicles the only time I had acceptible si #'s is when the K&N is dirty. The grimy coating on the filter keeps out the fine stuff and K&N even mention in their literature that they filter better once dirty. They are fine for the race strip, but not the real world, IMHO.
When I bought my truck new(02 Suburban)I changed the factory panel filter to a K&N replacement. After about 6000K I removed the stock factory intake tube that runs from the MAF to the TBI and then proceded to wipe everything clean. I found very fine particles in the TBI and the MAF on the towel I was using. I then decided to change the filter so I went with an Airraid cone filter setup with the intake tube. After about another 6000K I checked the same areas in the tube, TBI and MAF and found no residue. This is by no means scientific and just an observation but the Airaid seemed to prevent the penetration of fines that the K&N allowed. Maybe there is a difference between panel and cone filters but the Airaid worked much better. That being said I know several friends that use K&N and are very happy with them so I guess some people have success with K&N while others wouldn't use their stuff in somebody elses vehicle. My Two Cents.
If you don't look past your filter or do UOA, you're likely to be very happy with K&N.
That's a good point, Ron. You can sure get burned by having "Blind Faith". I was a big believer in K&N until I did that little check and sure was surprised at what I found. I'm also not a big believer in tests because anybody can manipulate them any way they want and you can get so many different results depending on who is doing the testing. I would much rather listen to Guys on the forum, who have real world results by using these different products on their vehicles. Even then you get different answers as well. What's a person to do.
well like ive said before, nobody in the racing world uses them..and their touted as a performance item..
I have used K&N air filters for the past several hundred thousand miiles on each of several different vehicles with no complaints. However, this discussion has raised a question to me.
Has anyone here documented how much damage is caused by the "small stuff" that passes the filter and how long in miles does it take for that damage to occur?
George
Has anyone here documented how much damage is caused by the "small stuff" that passes the filter and how long in miles does it take for that damage to occur?
George
I was being sarcastic about the BBB by the way. lol, 4 unanswered complaints in 36 months? Who cares?
I have yet to see my intake tract so any sign of foreign dirt past the filter in the 180k+ ive had it. Like I said before though, I do live in a very clean wet area.
I have yet to see my intake tract so any sign of foreign dirt past the filter in the 180k+ ive had it. Like I said before though, I do live in a very clean wet area.
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