Japan's first stealth fighter jet test...

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
China would run over Japan like an F150 running over a turtle.

Not to mention the average Japanese man is about as sissified a man you could find on this earth, and I doubt they would last 12 hours if China invaded.


I've recently worked with Japanese Navy Officers. They are nothing like you describe. They are dedicated, intelligent people with great resolve and love of country. They would make formidable foes.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The Japanese won't buy an aircraft from us, and we build the best, unless THEY are allowed to build parts of it they can mine technology from.


No, actually, they tried to buy the F-22.

We wouldn't export that airplane to anyone.

Given their threat, the F-22 would have been a great airplane for Japan. That's why they're building their own.

Now, we did export the Aegis destroyer, including the anti-ballistic missile SM-3 weapons. So, Japan's navy has a credible, modern, top of the line air defense and missile defense capability.

There are several capabilities that the F-22 would have brought to Japan's defensive arsenal, most of which are classified.

I would not be surprised to see them include the majority of those capabilities in this indigenous fighter.

There are also radar upgrades in the Japanese F-15s. They built their own radar for the F-15, and some of the F-22 capabilities can be found in an improved F-15 radar, so even without the F-22, I would expect to see the radar upgrades on the F-15 to fill in those capability gaps.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: shDK

Actually in a few weeks, it Will be decided Whitch new fighterplane we ( danish airforce) Will buy to replace our old f16.

The F35 get lots of critic for being to expensive, not finished and way too unreliable. It is up against f18 and eurofighter typhoon.


Actually, Denmark signed on to the F-35 program years ago. You're a level 3 partner, like Canada, Norway, and Australia. That partnership got Denmark several diplomatic, military, economic and production considerations, and was an agreement between the US and Danish governments.

The decision that you're making in a few weeks is whether or not you weasel out of the deal. You agreed to the buy, signed up for orders, then decided to consider other airplanes about three years ago.

You're still considering.

But either way, Denmark ordered the airplanes, which took the US Congress to approve, years ago. Danish Air Force officers have been here in the US as part of the program for several years.

I'm not an F-35 fan, as previous posts have made clear, but Denmark signed up, ordered airplanes, and now wants to renege on the commitment.

Denmark managed to waffle around enough, and want promises without putting money up front (as was done with the F-35) that the Eurofighter consortium withdrew from consideration, though Boeing is still offering Denmark the F/A-18E/F and Sweden is still offering the Gripen. So, no matter what you choose, it's very unlikely you'll get the Typhoon...

I wish the Danes luck in this endeavor. My former neighbor, and friend, just retired from the Danish army after over 30 years of service and a tour in Afghanistan.

The real question before the Danish people should be this: Will anyone outside Denmark really care what Denmark has for airplanes? Will Denmark, and the Danish Air Force, continue to be a contributory member of NATO? Or will they become irrelevant?

You've already put money and resources into F-35...but if I were you? I would buy the super Hornet...

 

[wemay]

Good info Astro14. Thank you.

 

[Astro14]

Airplanes, particularly fighters, are kinda' my thing...

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Airplanes, particularly fighters, are kinda' my thing...

 

[shDK]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: shDK

Actually in a few weeks, it Will be decided Whitch new fighterplane we ( danish airforce) Will buy to replace our old f16.

The F35 get lots of critic for being to expensive, not finished and way too unreliable. It is up against f18 and eurofighter typhoon.


Actually, Denmark signed on to the F-35 program years ago. You're a level 3 partner, like Canada, Norway, and Australia. That partnership got Denmark several diplomatic, military, economic and production considerations, and was an agreement between the US and Danish governments.

The decision that you're making in a few weeks is whether or not you weasel out of the deal. You agreed to the buy, signed up for orders, then decided to consider other airplanes about three years ago.

You're still considering.

But either way, Denmark ordered the airplanes, which took the US Congress to approve, years ago. Danish Air Force officers have been here in the US as part of the program for several years.

I'm not an F-35 fan, as previous posts have made clear, but Denmark signed up, ordered airplanes, and now wants to renege on the commitment.

Denmark managed to waffle around enough, and want promises without putting money up front (as was done with the F-35) that the Eurofighter consortium withdrew from consideration, though Boeing is still offering Denmark the F/A-18E/F and Sweden is still offering the Gripen. So, no matter what you choose, it's very unlikely you'll get the Typhoon...

I wish the Danes luck in this endeavor. My former neighbor, and friend, just retired from the Danish army after over 30 years of service and a tour in Afghanistan.

The real question before the Danish people should be this: Will anyone outside Denmark really care what Denmark has for airplanes? Will Denmark, and the Danish Air Force, continue to be a contributory member of NATO? Or will they become irrelevant?

You've already put money and resources into F-35...but if I were you? I would buy the super Hornet...


I know we signed up for the F35 program. If that was smart or not. I have no chance of judging.

Will anybody outside care what kind of planes we buy? We are no large military power. We are a small country, but we have bin used to living very close to our enemys almost allways. I personally think that the world Will only be more unstable. Russia it taking up There old super power Dreams. All off Europe including Denmark Will have to spent more money on it's armed forces. I think our military first priority must be to secure our boarders. I see no need to follow the US into more dessert wars. But ofcourse we must deliver our share to NATO.

You clearly have more Knowledge about fighterplanes then i have. But all in all. I Hope they choose the Best for our little old monarchy.

 

[Astro14]

I really hope that Denmark is able to buy an airplane that makes sense for Denmark, and I edited my comments in an attempt to convey that because my first draft sounded entirely too critical. Denmark is attempting to get out of the commitment to the F-35 as the program continues to grow in cost/unit and production slides to the right.

Denmark isn't the only country that is facing this quandary - even the Level 1 partners (UK) are having second thoughts, as are the Norwegians, the Canadians, the Australians (who bought the F/A-18E/F as a stopgap because the F-35 deliveries wouldn't meet their timeline of F-111 retirement). You're not alone in reconsidering.

The difference with the F-35 vs. the other options is that you've sunk Kroner into the F-35 program, you've committed to it politically, and you won't get that money or political capital back if you pull out of the deal. But you may save money in the long run by avoiding buying this over-priced, over-designed, over-hyped airplane.

Actually, you should consider yourself lucky that the Typhoon consortium pulled out in 2007...that's another airplane that was over-promised, and under-delivered. It was over a decade late in production, way over cost, and while it performs well aerodynamically, its weapon system integration still limits its mission capabilities...

So, what makes sense for Denmark? Personally, I think the F/A-18 makes sense. Not the fastest fighter built, not the longest range, but versatile, reliable, and, with several hundred in service in the US and other nations, well-supported. It's relatively cheap, carries an incredible array of air-air and air-ground weapons. It's completely compatible with NATO (which matters to Denmark). It's the Camry of modern fighters, but hey, sometimes, that's exactly what you need...

 

[grampi]

I don't know why we have such planes as the F-22 and F35 anyway. They aren't needed. The F-15 and F-16 are still superior to anything in the sky...

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know why we have such planes as the F-22 and F35 anyway. They aren't needed. The F-15 and F-16 are still superior to anything in the sky...


Well...I don't think that we can say that any more...

The SU-35 is a formidable airplane. Speed, maneuverability, range, radar and firepower of that jet are equal to or far better than the F-15 and vastly superior to the F-16.

The Russians will sell them to anyone with cash...including the Chinese, who have bought over a hundred, and yeah, the Russians have hundreds of their own "Flanker" family in service right now.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't know why we have such planes as the F-22 and F35 anyway. They aren't needed. The F-15 and F-16 are still superior to anything in the sky...


Well...I don't think that we can say that any more...

The SU-35 is a formidable airplane. Speed, maneuverability, range, radar and firepower of that jet are equal to or far better than the F-15 and vastly superior to the F-16.



I'd believe that when I saw it, and I doubt they have the electronics our fighters have...our fighters would shoot them down before the enemy even knew they were there...

 

[Astro14]

Grampi - you'll just have to take my word. I've seen it. Of the two of us, who has actual fighter experience?

Their pilots aren't as good, and I'll match our USAF pilots with confidence against any other pilot group in the world (except the USN, of course), but Russia builds some great airplanes.

That includes the radar, sensors, and ECM suites. Some of their electronics are way ahead of ours. They put a phased array radar in a fighter a decade before we did. The Flanker has had an IRST for decades. F-15 still doesn't have that kind of capability. The Russian fighters (Flanker/Fulcrum) had off-bore sight helmet mounted cuing systems for over a decade before we got them in our 4th generation fighters. The Russian missiles are cutting edge as well.

Don't make the mistake of underestimating the Russian hardware.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
China would run over Japan like an F150 running over a turtle.

Not to mention the average Japanese man is about as sissified a man you could find on this earth, and I doubt they would last 12 hours if China invaded.


Wow, I know a couple of JSDF members who would take real offense at that. Clearly you've never met any Self-Defense Force members, as they are just as professional, and good at their jobs as any American military member.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The Japanese won't buy an aircraft from us, and we build the best, unless THEY are allowed to build parts of it they can mine technology from.


Isn't that China you are thinking of? Japan is just as technologically advanced as the US is, if not more so as a whole. They don't need us to design aircraft, they are perfectly capable of designing, and building excellent aircraft on their own.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Nick R

Isn't that China you are thinking of? Japan is just as technologically advanced as the US is, if not more so as a whole. They don't need us to design aircraft, they are perfectly capable of designing, and building excellent aircraft on their own.

I don't think Japan has the resources to spare building and testing fighters on the scale of the U.S. Maybe if they dumped a dis proportionate amount of their resources they could match us. But even then I doubt it. They are definitely not more "Advanced" then us. The best research bar none is done in the U.S.

And remember many engineering schools partner with U.S.companies. Just MHO

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
China would run over Japan like an F150 running over a turtle.

Not to mention the average Japanese man is about as sissified a man you could find on this earth, and I doubt they would last 12 hours if China invaded.


Wow, I know a couple of JSDF members who would take real offense at that. Clearly you've never met any Self-Defense Force members, as they are just as professional, and good at their jobs as any American military member.


Jesus Christmas!! I am well aware that the JSDF forces are well trained, loyal, disciplined, and probably as good a fighter as any other first rate military.

The average military age male available for reserve duty on the other hand... The modern Japanese man is three generations away from the Japanese soldiers we fought in WW2. They are not the same thing.