$600 for 4? Why not go full retard and get a real electric lift installed in the garage? That set up would probably cost you less than couple of grand. If I had to make the choice between $600 micky mouse solution vs a $2000 lift, I know what I would choose!
Jack Point Jack Stands
- Thread starter JHZR2
- Start date
- Status
JHZR2
Staff member
As I mentioned, I might buy a kwik lift. I don't have the height in my garage, which has joists across that we use for storage. A mid rise lift might be ok, but most of what I see for $2000 I'm not sure I'd trust very well. The kwik lift looks the most secure to me besides pouring a new deep, high pressure and debarred pad and putting in a pro lift. Not interested in that at this time, and the ROI would not be there.
This is a straightforward solution to a more and more common problem... But yes, $$$. Uses a fancy alloy that doesn't help with cost.
This is a straightforward solution to a more and more common problem... But yes, $$$. Uses a fancy alloy that doesn't help with cost.
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Originally Posted By: spackard
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Do these kind of places allow you to spray on rustproofing type products? Don't know of any places around here however.
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Do these kind of places allow you to spray on rustproofing type products? Don't know of any places around here however.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: spackard
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Neat concept. If I knew of something like that around here, I'd probably use it... If the price was right.
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Neat concept. If I knew of something like that around here, I'd probably use it... If the price was right.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: spackard
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Do these kind of places allow you to spray on rustproofing type products? Don't know of any places around here however.
Probably not as one of the rules is to report any spill, and all the comments say the place is clean.
Originally Posted By: spackard
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Do these kind of places allow you to spray on rustproofing type products? Don't know of any places around here however.
Probably not as one of the rules is to report any spill, and all the comments say the place is clean.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: spackard
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Neat concept. If I knew of something like that around here, I'd probably use it... If the price was right.
One of the local used parts dealers just opened one up. I was happy to see it as I may use it in the future ($25.00 per hour), but I was also mad as I was playing with the idea of opening up one myself after seeing one in the Milwaukee area.
Originally Posted By: spackard
: Do you need it airborne for a long time?
There's a trend around here to rent a self-serve garage with lift and tools for a modest amount of money per hour/half/full day. Do you need it up there long enough to pay for the tool?
"Your Dream Garage DIY Auto Shop", for example.
Neat concept. If I knew of something like that around here, I'd probably use it... If the price was right.
One of the local used parts dealers just opened one up. I was happy to see it as I may use it in the future ($25.00 per hour), but I was also mad as I was playing with the idea of opening up one myself after seeing one in the Milwaukee area.
New to this forum and stumbled on this thread. Fair disclosure - I'm the inventor. I won't promote, but there are quite a few threads with reactions from users and positive and negative comments on Rennlist and some other threads if you are looking for more information. I'd also be glad to respond to questions - but don't want to violate the thread rules. I will say this - I owned a 4 post lift for years BEFORE I invented these. I still have the lift, but use the stands for wheel swaps, brakes, suspension, and oil changes (w/ oil changes its mostly because I store a car on the lift and the stands are faster than swapping the cars around). Hope this post doesn't get me thrown off this thread. I always suggest being safe in whatever lift and support method you select.
If you can figure how to bring the cost way down, lots of people would be interested in using your invention. Right now it is a boutique application and only for the guys who have lots of money and still have the time and inclination to tinker with their own vehicle. As you have found out, some Porsche owners fit this bill but people who maintain their own vehicles are somewhat frugal or at least do cost benefit analysis before springing for a new shiny tool and I afraid this invention does not pass my analysis.
I do understand that there is a market at extreme high end for your tool but I think you are artificially limiting the potential of your invention.
I do understand that there is a market at extreme high end for your tool but I think you are artificially limiting the potential of your invention.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
$600 for 4? Why not go full retard and get a real electric lift installed in the garage? That set up would probably cost you less than couple of grand. If I had to make the choice between $600 high quality solution vs a $2000 Mickey Mouse lift, I know what I would choose!
There i fixed it for ya.
$600 for 4? Why not go full retard and get a real electric lift installed in the garage? That set up would probably cost you less than couple of grand. If I had to make the choice between $600 high quality solution vs a $2000 Mickey Mouse lift, I know what I would choose!
There i fixed it for ya.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If you can figure how to bring the cost way down, lots of people would be interested in using your invention. Right now it is a boutique application and only for the guys who have lots of money and still have the time and inclination to tinker with their own vehicle. As you have found out, some Porsche owners fit this bill but people who maintain their own vehicles are somewhat frugal or at least do cost benefit analysis before springing for a new shiny tool and I afraid this invention does not pass my analysis.
I do understand that there is a market at extreme high end for your tool but I think you are artificially limiting the potential of your invention.
Actually the limitation isn't artificial. The stands are made one at a time in Montgomery Illinois and they are really expensive to make. In addition - some frugal guys know you can do allot more than $300 worth of damage to your car by jacking it in the wrong place or having it fall. The stands were originally designed for the track where guys burn up tires and brakes and change them on site. When you think about how fast you can go through $300 worth of brake pads or tires - a tool that works in the right place on your car might be worth the money. That said - we are trying to lower the price, but we also prefer to keep the product American made and safe. I appreciate that they are expensive compared to other stands and therefore not for everyone. However, we aren't trying to gouge people. The margin, even at full price, is tight.
If you can figure how to bring the cost way down, lots of people would be interested in using your invention. Right now it is a boutique application and only for the guys who have lots of money and still have the time and inclination to tinker with their own vehicle. As you have found out, some Porsche owners fit this bill but people who maintain their own vehicles are somewhat frugal or at least do cost benefit analysis before springing for a new shiny tool and I afraid this invention does not pass my analysis.
I do understand that there is a market at extreme high end for your tool but I think you are artificially limiting the potential of your invention.
Actually the limitation isn't artificial. The stands are made one at a time in Montgomery Illinois and they are really expensive to make. In addition - some frugal guys know you can do allot more than $300 worth of damage to your car by jacking it in the wrong place or having it fall. The stands were originally designed for the track where guys burn up tires and brakes and change them on site. When you think about how fast you can go through $300 worth of brake pads or tires - a tool that works in the right place on your car might be worth the money. That said - we are trying to lower the price, but we also prefer to keep the product American made and safe. I appreciate that they are expensive compared to other stands and therefore not for everyone. However, we aren't trying to gouge people. The margin, even at full price, is tight.
Originally Posted By: karut
That said - we are trying to lower the price, but we also prefer to keep the product American made and safe. I appreciate that they are expensive compared to other stands and therefore not for everyone. However, we aren't trying to gouge people. The margin, even at full price, is tight.
I like the product and am definitely interested.
Thank you for not wanting to outsource this to some Asian sweat shop and using an American foundry and quality materials.
There are enough people who still know what quality is and will pay for it.
IMO $150 ea is not over priced for that kind of quality. Quality has a price.
That said - we are trying to lower the price, but we also prefer to keep the product American made and safe. I appreciate that they are expensive compared to other stands and therefore not for everyone. However, we aren't trying to gouge people. The margin, even at full price, is tight.
I like the product and am definitely interested.
Thank you for not wanting to outsource this to some Asian sweat shop and using an American foundry and quality materials.
There are enough people who still know what quality is and will pay for it.
IMO $150 ea is not over priced for that kind of quality. Quality has a price.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: karut
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If you can figure how to bring the cost way down, lots of people would be interested in using your invention. Right now it is a boutique application and only for the guys who have lots of money and still have the time and inclination to tinker with their own vehicle. As you have found out, some Porsche owners fit this bill but people who maintain their own vehicles are somewhat frugal or at least do cost benefit analysis before springing for a new shiny tool and I afraid this invention does not pass my analysis.
I do understand that there is a market at extreme high end for your tool but I think you are artificially limiting the potential of your invention.
Actually the limitation isn't artificial. The stands are made one at a time in Montgomery Illinois and they are really expensive to make. In addition - some frugal guys know you can do allot more than $300 worth of damage to your car by jacking it in the wrong place or having it fall. The stands were originally designed for the track where guys burn up tires and brakes and change them on site. When you think about how fast you can go through $300 worth of brake pads or tires - a tool that works in the right place on your car might be worth the money. That said - we are trying to lower the price, but we also prefer to keep the product American made and safe. I appreciate that they are expensive compared to other stands and therefore not for everyone. However, we aren't trying to gouge people. The margin, even at full price, is tight.
Thanks for your comments! I'd imagine it is tight given that you're casting a custom form with a high strength alloy.
Definitely on my radar to buy, once I can justify $600ish with a job to do on a car.
Please keep them American made!!
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If you can figure how to bring the cost way down, lots of people would be interested in using your invention. Right now it is a boutique application and only for the guys who have lots of money and still have the time and inclination to tinker with their own vehicle. As you have found out, some Porsche owners fit this bill but people who maintain their own vehicles are somewhat frugal or at least do cost benefit analysis before springing for a new shiny tool and I afraid this invention does not pass my analysis.
I do understand that there is a market at extreme high end for your tool but I think you are artificially limiting the potential of your invention.
Actually the limitation isn't artificial. The stands are made one at a time in Montgomery Illinois and they are really expensive to make. In addition - some frugal guys know you can do allot more than $300 worth of damage to your car by jacking it in the wrong place or having it fall. The stands were originally designed for the track where guys burn up tires and brakes and change them on site. When you think about how fast you can go through $300 worth of brake pads or tires - a tool that works in the right place on your car might be worth the money. That said - we are trying to lower the price, but we also prefer to keep the product American made and safe. I appreciate that they are expensive compared to other stands and therefore not for everyone. However, we aren't trying to gouge people. The margin, even at full price, is tight.
Thanks for your comments! I'd imagine it is tight given that you're casting a custom form with a high strength alloy.
Definitely on my radar to buy, once I can justify $600ish with a job to do on a car.
Please keep them American made!!
On the forums that have paid membership we offer a discount to paid members. I like the fact that "Bob" seems to grant full access in this forum without payment. Maybe I could do a discount where anyone who donates $10 to the forum gets $20 off on a pair of stands - $279 vs. $299. I know $20 isn't going to make or break the decision for most guys. It would just be a way to support the forum. However,twenty bucks is a good portion of our margin when you consider this. If you walked into the foundry and pointed to the ingots of metal they use to cast these stands it would take $60 in raw metal for 1 pair before they started any work. Two guys working can make 3-5 pairs in a day - just the rough castings. Then they have to be cleaned and finished (a separate day). And that's not including the pads, labels, packaging, handling, etc. There's lots of labor involved - at Illinois labor rates.
It's also an expensive alloy - but we don't use it to be "fancy". If you ever see a crane or a large cherry picker going down the road you'll often see large metal disk (about 2'- 3' diameter) on the rig that are used on the stabilizer legs to support the rig in use. This is the same material AND the same foundry we use for the stands. We wanted a material that wouldn't crack or fracture under load and would be strong even if placed on a less than perfectly flat surface - like a race track paddock road. Thus the choice of Almag 535. It's stronger than heat treated aluminum. There aren't too many foundries that pour it - especially for parts as big as these stands. Anyway - a little explanation for the hefty price and an offer for a small price break for the sake of introduction.
If you look at our website it says we're sold out and filling orders as we receive product. We sell all the stands they can make and started and ended last year with no inventory. But the foundry has added workers and we're in an inventory position for the first time since last May - at least as of this week. We also ship to Canada, Europe, South America, Australia, and the UK so we do get wiped out without notice.
That's probably saying too much, but thanks for the friendly welcome.
It's also an expensive alloy - but we don't use it to be "fancy". If you ever see a crane or a large cherry picker going down the road you'll often see large metal disk (about 2'- 3' diameter) on the rig that are used on the stabilizer legs to support the rig in use. This is the same material AND the same foundry we use for the stands. We wanted a material that wouldn't crack or fracture under load and would be strong even if placed on a less than perfectly flat surface - like a race track paddock road. Thus the choice of Almag 535. It's stronger than heat treated aluminum. There aren't too many foundries that pour it - especially for parts as big as these stands. Anyway - a little explanation for the hefty price and an offer for a small price break for the sake of introduction.
If you look at our website it says we're sold out and filling orders as we receive product. We sell all the stands they can make and started and ended last year with no inventory. But the foundry has added workers and we're in an inventory position for the first time since last May - at least as of this week. We also ship to Canada, Europe, South America, Australia, and the UK so we do get wiped out without notice.
That's probably saying too much, but thanks for the friendly welcome.
Very interesting! Engineer in me really appreciates your detailed description. I am not a mechanical engineer, so I am not in a position to guess if this can be mass produced at cheaper prices but your explanation at least tells me that it is not as easy as I had initially thought.
Sometimes being an engineer is a curse because you mistakenly believe you know more than you really do
- Vikas
Sometimes being an engineer is a curse because you mistakenly believe you know more than you really do
- Vikas
The simple answer is - yes it can be produced cheaper. As a start up and in an effort to avoid the risk of huge debt - we started small. We did get this started during the recession so it was risky anyway. We found foundries somewhere else that could lower per pair price - mostly off shore. But they had minimum orders and investment requirements nearing a million dollars. The current domestic foundry is building a facility that will increase production numbers but it's a 5 million dollar investment and construction to on line takes about a year. I don't know yet what that will do to costs. They're not building the facility for our product alone - but there is the need to cover the cost of the expansion. For now we are growing slowly and trying to maintain great service while responding to increasing demand. Every day is new. The people we're working with here in Illinois have been great. This product NEVER would have gotten off the ground based on some of the early responses I had from the first few manufacturers we approached. Trio Foundry and Sandwich Casting really made this happen in a way that I didn't have to go broke to test the concept. They have worked with us to constantly improve and increase production. There are several Illinois companies that helped in design, testing, stress analysis, etc. We've had a single stand loaded to 10,000 lbs. at an engineering facility with no sign of yield (actually we've run product through testing at 3 separate facilities). As an engineer you know those guys don't give away their time - but you can also appreciate that designing something like this is more than guess work. We also have 2 patents with a third pending. Like I said - something new every day.
JHZR2
Staff member
Excellent! From my angle and persuasion (nothing personal), if you went offshore Id boycott your company, but as a domestic producer, I look forward to buying a set.
I know getting other price points can be a business decision that some will go with, but I hope you are able to keep it in the USA. Its great if you can!
I know getting other price points can be a business decision that some will go with, but I hope you are able to keep it in the USA. Its great if you can!
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Excellent! From my angle and persuasion (nothing personal), if you went offshore Id boycott your company, but as a domestic producer, I look forward to buying a set.
I know getting other price points can be a business decision that some will go with, but I hope you are able to keep it in the USA. Its great if you can!
After veiw his web site and seeing the video of said product, I look foward (soon) to buy a set. Plus the discount helps! Thanks!
Excellent! From my angle and persuasion (nothing personal), if you went offshore Id boycott your company, but as a domestic producer, I look forward to buying a set.
I know getting other price points can be a business decision that some will go with, but I hope you are able to keep it in the USA. Its great if you can!
After veiw his web site and seeing the video of said product, I look foward (soon) to buy a set. Plus the discount helps! Thanks!
I really like the idea of this product but I've got a question about applications with pinch-weld jack points. If you want to lift all four corners of the car, then with this setup you'll jack up each corner individually and lower it onto the stand. Say you jack up the driver's side front first. When you move to the passenger side front and start lifting the car, won't the driver's side front pinch weld, sitting in the adapter, end up "rocking" and potentially getting bent or slightly dragged across the small load-bearing surface inside the adapter?
Maybe the angles in play aren't enough to cause a problem? In any case it may not be any worse than having to change the angle of pinch weld to jack stand surface contact while jacking up the other end of the car while using conventional stands...
But how well does this work in practice on pinch welds?
Maybe the angles in play aren't enough to cause a problem? In any case it may not be any worse than having to change the angle of pinch weld to jack stand surface contact while jacking up the other end of the car while using conventional stands...
But how well does this work in practice on pinch welds?
- Status
