Howard Dean on the Sean Hannity show

[buster]

Did anyone hear this today? I thought Dean did a nice job. For one, people are making waaaaaay to big of a deal regarding the screaming episode. Get over it. So the guy is pasionate about defeating Bush. Big freaking deal. I give him credit for putting some emotion into it unlike ****, stone face, Cheney. (Used to like him but a pattern is emerging on this guy). I wouldn't vote for Dean but he is intelligent and made some very nice points. For one, Dean would balance the budget a hell of a lot faster then Bush will. He also said something about Corporations are paying less taxes then ever since 1934 and creating jobs off shore. Sean Hannity tried to nail him on that but failed.

I loved it. Dean is basically a fiscal conservative and social progressive. Bush is a Liberal Conservative and social conservative. Regarding Iraq, tough call. I give Dean credit among all the Dems bc he never changed his position the whole way through. And he might be right after all...only time will tell. I just thought it was good bc Sean Hannity takes things way too far and way out of context. No one has the answers yet on Iraq and for those that think they know everything, like Sean Hannity and Limbough, it shows your weakness and arrogance IMO.

[ January 27, 2004, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

"Bush is a Liberal Conservative and social conservative. "
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???????????????????????????????

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

buster, have you noticed that it is the liberal media making a big deal out of Dean's rant? I believe that they wanted him out of the race as he is unelectable.

 

[Al]

I think its a mute point. Kerry is the candidate.

 

[buster]

GM, let me ask you this, does it really matter that he yells? Are people that stupid to care so much about something so insignificant? The media does ANYTHING to get ratings. It has nothing to do with Liberal Media.

BTW, Kerry/Edwards ticket could beat Bush. The guy is vulnerable. If however, the economy picks up and Iraq doesn't turn into a bigger mess, W is in.

 

[GSV]

quote:

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Dean would balance the budget a hell of a lot faster then Bush will.

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Dean would be the KOOK candidate if Dennis Kucinich didn't have that block locked up.

PS Kerry is just another liberal j-off from Massafreakingchusetts. The rest of the US doesn't think like north easterners.

[ January 27, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: GSV ]

 

[buster]

quote:

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The rest of the US doesn't think like north easterners.

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You mean the North East where the greatest academic universities are? And where public education is the highest in the nation?

[ January 27, 2004, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

buster, the northeast has the largest urban population. No?

 

[GSV]

University of Chicago and Stanford are not in the northeast pinko belt.

Top 10 SAT score avg. by state.

North Dakota 1215
Iowa 1183
Illinois 1179
Wisconson 1179
South Dakota 1176
Minnestoa 1173
Missouri 1165
Kansas 1160
Nebraska 1151
Michigan 1140
Oklahoma 1131

As a product of the NJ education system you may be asking yourself "Aren't these states all in New England?" Sadly the answer is no.

Dean, he's gonna lose in New Hampshire! and in South Carolina! And Oklahoma! and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico.....Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!

Sorry I had to do that.

In the interest of full disclosure I grew up in NH. (but I escaped before it became a colony of the Kennedy state)

 

[Pablo]

People in the NE only think they are smarter. We generally don't give hoot at CalTech, JPL, UCXX, Stanford, UW......

Two quotes are a joke from you Buster:

quote:

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I wouldn't vote for Dean but he is intelligent

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I think I just blew an a## gasket...gotta check my shorts

quote:

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Dean would balance the budget...

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I'm thinking you haven't read his platform. Remind me again, though, he would tax people who earn $70K or more twice as much, start his federal medical system and forgive student debt before or after he eliminates the military?

One think GOOD about Clinton, the congress kept his spending in check.....wish they would do it with Bush.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by GSV:
University of Chicago and Stanford are not in the northeast pinko belt.

Top 10 SAT score avg. by state.

North Dakota 1215
Iowa 1183
Illinois 1179
Wisconson 1179
South Dakota 1176
Minnestoa 1173
Missouri 1165
Kansas 1160
Nebraska 1151
Michigan 1140
Oklahoma 1131

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Not too surprising except for Oklahoma. I guess it's less like Texas than I thought

I would like to see average scores for the remainder of the states. Where can I find them?

Answering my own question...
http://www.collegeboard.com/press/senior97/table02.html

The states in the top ten on your list tend to have a more homogeneous population with fewer immigrants and English as a secon language students. I thought that was the main reason they were at the top.

But looking at the chart I referenced, I see that your top ten states also had an unusually low percentage of sturents taking the test. Particulalry for states where education is tradionally valued. States with a low percentage of SAT test takers tend toward higher scores because only the more serious university bound students take the test.

Maybe later I will graph the percentage of SAT test takers vs score. The results should be interesting.

Added at 1816

The top 23 states had less than 30% of graduating HS students take the SAT.

The bottom rated 18 states had over 50% of their graduating HS students take the SAT. Except texas, it made the bottom 10 with 49% of it's students taking the test.

The biggest discriminator on test scores appears to be on how selective the states were about having their students take the test.

[ January 27, 2004, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Thanks XS650, I was going to ask about the % of students taking the test.

Can we agree that there are smart people in every state of the country and that people in the Northeast think they are smarter?

[ January 28, 2004, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: GROUCHO MARX ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

I believe Al is right, there is only one dog left in this fight.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Thanks XS650, I was going to ask about the % of students taking the test.

Can we agree that there are smart people in every state of the country and that people in the Northeast think they are smarter?

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People in the NE think they are smarter and say it out loud. Most other places they just think it

I graphed the math SAT scores and did a linear regression analysis to get an equation for the relationship between % of graduates taking the SAT in each state and the SAT score for each state. Then I sorted the states according to how far above or below that trend line each state was. That should reasonably well take out the effects of larger percentages of student populations taking the test.

The results for best and worst were interesting and didn't have any significant surprises.

The eleven best and worst states, with their deviation from the trend in SAT points are.

Top 11 states
Iowa 36
Minnesota 32
North Dakota 30
Wisconcin 27
Massachusetts 26
New Hampshire 25
Connecticut 24
Illinois 23
Kansas 15
New Jersey 14
New York 14


Bottom 11 states
Idaho -15
Mississippi -15
Texas -15
Florida -16
Arizona -16
North Carolina -17
Georgia -20
Nevada -26
D.C. -29
South Carolina -34
West Virginia -42

 

[Dan4510]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Thanks XS650, I was going to ask about the % of students taking the test.

Can we agree that there are smart people in every state of the country and that people in the Northeast think they are smarter?

---

People in the NE think they are smarter and say it out loud. Most other places they just think it

I graphed the math SAT scores and did a linear regression analysis to get an equation for the relationship between % of graduates taking the SAT in each state and the SAT score for each state. Then I sorted the states according to how far above or below that trend line each state was. That should reasonably well take out the effects of larger percentages of student populations taking the test.

The results for best and worst were interesting and didn't have any significant surprises.

The eleven best and worst states, with their deviation from the trend in SAT points are.

Top 11 states
Iowa 36
Minnesota 32
North Dakota 30
Wisconcin 27
Massachusetts 26
New Hampshire 25
Connecticut 24
Illinois 23
Kansas 15
New Jersey 14
New York 14


Bottom 11 states
Idaho -15
Mississippi -15
Texas -15
Florida -16
Arizona -16
North Carolina -17
Georgia -20
Nevada -26
D.C. -29
South Carolina -34
West Virginia -42

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Wow yet another indictment of regression analysis. I dont think this measures what it purports too. This seems to correlate better with percentages of poor minorities in a state vs better off minorities in a state. Taking or not taking the SAT correlates much better with relative wealth than anything else.

Dan

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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He also said something about Corporations are paying less taxes then ever since 1934 and creating jobs off shore.

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Kook Dean and the socialist libs have nothing to offer the voter so they resort to hate mongering and scare tactics and the same old script they have always used. The dems have to scream because they offer nothing of substance. The libs answer, tax more; tax everyone more, and don't give any tax relief to spur the economy. Make everyone a victim of the corporations.

These guys really need to study history and economics 101. History shows that people don't prosper when the government steals their money.

As to creating jobs offshore, just tax the corps more and place more socialistic roadblocks [translation - goverment regulations and costly mandates] upon businesses and see how many more jobs are pushed offshore. And which group prefers to use judicial and legislative mandates and regulations --- the libs.

Corporations and the top tier 10% income earners pay more than 34% in federal taxes alone.

Who's looking out for you? Certainly not the screaming libs!

[ January 28, 2004, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Wow yet another indictment of regression analysis. I dont think this measures what it purports too. This seems to correlate better with percentages of poor minorities in a state vs better off minorities in a state. Taking or not taking the SAT correlates much better with relative wealth than anything else.

Dan

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Please tell me what I purported to measure when I did the regression analysis, since you are convinced it doesn't measure what I purported to measure.

There were several states in the bottom 11 that had high percentages of test takers. There were also some wealthy states with low percentages of test takers.

It would be a good idea to at least look at the underlying data before you pass judgement on the analysis.

It's an interesting topic, please give me some meaningful criticism if you understand the data and process.

If not, feel free to return to watching Hannity.

 

[mikep]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:

quote:

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The rest of the US doesn't think like north easterners.

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You mean the North East where the greatest academic universities are? And where public education is the highest in the nation?

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You mean those ultra left wing breeding grounds where extreme leftist agendas are taught as fact and anyone who refuses to be indoctrinated is labled a fascist? Where freedom of speech is only allowed if it is in lock step with socialist ideology?

Gang...not everyone in the North East thinks you should send your hard earned money to help those who refuse to help themselves.

Mikep

 

[MarkC]

Did anybody notice this?
"Comparing or ranking states on the basis of SAT scores alone is invalid and strongly discouraged by the College Board"

I noticed North Carolina is in the bottom 11, yet is the home of UNC, Duke, NC State, The Research Triangle, etc. I doubt the validity of tranking by SAT scores.
( And we play pretty good basketball back home too.)

 

[buster]

Guy's relax, I agree with you. New England snobs do think they are smarter then everyone else. At least that is the impression I got. HOWEVER, there are those in the Bibel Belt that are just as "narrow" minded and scary! Different form of arogance IMO. Regarding schools, higher education is clearly top notch in the North East and California. It's an older part of the country so more Ivy schools (90%) are found here. Doesn't mean they are better but MIT/Priceton/Penn etc. are no joke. Public schools I always thought were better in the east. I think it really comes down to what town you live in. High tax based towns (wealthier towns) have better schools. thats how it is in NJ at least. I work in Princeton and I believe they have the #1 ranked High School in the nation right now. Not sure if it's private or not though.