How long is too long of a oil line for a remote filter head?

[Dyusik]

Vehicle in question is the Ram in sig.
I bought a remote set up a while back, 1/2 inch barbs, dual head. So my preferred location takes the filters to the front of the bed. That is roughly 20 feet of line each way. Before I make a custom hydraulic line (lost all oil twice due to hose barb slip), I wanted to ask whether the delay in oil pressure is problematic. It's a tenth of a second or so compared to baseline.
Second thought that crossed my mind is if the filter head is 1", is the 1/2 inch line inadequate?

The frame rail mounting is not ideal as I don't stay on pavement. Cramped enough under the hood as it is. Behind the grill / in the bumper... too many deer where I live.

 

[ZeeOSix]

20 feet of line each way (seems high) is a pretty long run, so I'd use a relatively large ID line. If you know what ID line you're going to consider, you can run the dP numbers through an on-line calculator. Let me know here, and I'll run the numbers for you.

Whatever dP the remote lines add compared to no remote lines, the closer it puts the pump to hitting pressure relief. The filter doesn't care where it's located, it only cares what the flow volume is going through it. Therefore, the filter bypass valve will not be effected by the remote hose lenght.

If you just change the filter at an oil change without blowing the lines out, the oil pressure should build-up quickly. You'd have to pre-fill them somehow before the first ever start-up after installing the system.

 

[DemoFly]

300 feet is definitely too long. Anything over 300 feet too long, too.

 

[Dyusik]

Half inch line is manageable, but I considered the drag in the lines and decided 3/4, bigger would likely be a routing nightmare. Prefilling isn't hard, less messy than a single oil filter change in that thing, but blowing out oil at oci isn't something I'll do, especially with a bypass filter in one of the slots. The pressure delay I referred to was during normal operation, compression of fluid/stretching of the hose.

 

[Mewbs]

I'd go with Army Navy hose and fittings, I don't trust barb fittings and worm clamps at all.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This hose pressure drop calculator shows the dP to be pretty large on 1/2 inch diameter hose. And this is with no fittings included, just the 40 feet of hose. Half inch ID is pretty restrictive for 40 feet IMO. Even with hot oil, there's at least 17.0 PSI of dP without any hose fittings. Even with 3/4 inch ID hose, at 5 GPM with cold oil the dP is 73 PSI. Whatever size hose is used, I wouldn't rev the engine very high until the oil is at full operating temperature.

Fluid Flow Pressure Calculator

Gates Fluid Flow Pressure Calculator finds potential fluid flow issues by using hose & coupling specifications and fluid properties of your application.

www.gates.com

Hot & Cold oil at 10 GPM (for a worse case).

Hot & Cold oil at 5 GPM.

 

[Dyusik]

So it's a tad different. Looking at PSI loss, I'm golden with a 3000 psi hose if I was to stick to the 3/4 inch idea, however the 1" will have same cost and the pressure difference of the working load will be heaps lighter. I guess I'm gonna have to tear into the thing and find a good place to route the lines to accommodate a 1".
Scrutinize my logic please.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So it's a tad different. Looking at PSI loss, I'm golden with a 3000 psi hose if I was to stick to the 3/4 inch idea, however the 1" will have same cost and the pressure difference of the working load will be heaps lighter. I guess I'm gonna have to tear into the thing and find a good place to route the lines to accommodate a 1".
Scrutinize my logic please.

What oil viscosity are you going to be using, and what's the coldest start-up temperature do you expect? 1750 cSt viscosity is roughly a 15W-40 at 32F (0C).

Also, I highly doubt the oil pump in your engine will put out 16 GPM, even at redline, and not in pressure relief. It would be helpful if you could find that oil pump's max output flow, and also what the pump's pressure relief valve is set to. But even if it was 16 GPM, if you have 40-42 feet of remote hose, the pump is going to hit pressure relief way before it could send 16 GPM through those hoses, especially with cold thick oil. As shown by the on-line dP calculator, if the oil is thick enough and the hoses long enough, the pump could literally go into pressure relief with low revs and essentially cut-off all oil flow down the hoses, through the filter and into the engine. Not a good situation.

With remote hoses that long, the flow rate and viscosity inputs make a big difference as the on-line calculator shows. In your case, I'd probably run a 0W-xx winter rated oil because in a cold start scenario there's going to be a lot of pressure loss over 40-42 ft of hose. And as mentioned before, engine revs would have to be kept pretty low until the oil warms up near full temperature. Running remote hoses that long can be dangerous in terms of reducing oil flow to the engine if not analyzed properly. If the dP over the remote hose length is too great, the pump will hit pressure relief quickly, and that will cut lots of oil flow that will not make it to the engine.

So there is no room inside the engine bay somewhere for this setup? First thing I'd do is try to find a mounting location as close as possible to the engine.

 

[dogememe]

Seems like a bad idea with more risk than reward.

 

[Dyusik]

The engine bay is...modern. My hope was to get away from the engine bay for simplicity of service sake, but it seems it isn't going to happen. The two filters amount to 2.5 qt, so it's quite bulky. Passenger side where the filter is located, is limited since the turbo is there. Driver side has just enough space for me to scrape past to get to the fuel filter.
As for the oil pump, it's rated for 4.88gpm x 1000rpm. It doesn't get too cold, haven't seen it lower than 10F, briefly.
I'll look for an alternative location.
What kind of losses would you be comfortable with?

 

[RooflessVW]

Is there no room behind a fender liner?

 

[Dyusik]

Is there no room behind a fender liner?

Honestly I haven't looked. I'm not a fan of the 1/2 inch hardware. The filter is 1", so my brain defaults to the idea that anything less than that is a bad idea. 6BT is known for the overbuildedness, so some safety margin is there, but I would rather not tempt fate. That's why I asked here.
I'm thinking to scrap the idea, leave the filter head as is, and just use the 1/8 auxiliary oil port and do a bypass set up. Originally hoped to to set up a bypass filter in one slot and feed it into the clean flow, but the tool investment to create such a contraption would outweigh the cost of another truck. Gotta make do.

For reference, this is a "stock photo" off google.

 

[RooflessVW]

I was thinking forward, up under the headlights or something. Normally there's some room to the left/right of the radiator, etc.

 

[hemioiler]

Have you seen this?

HP10593 Oil Filter Relocation Kit for 2010-18 RAM 2500/3500 6.7L Cummins

Check out the deal on HP10593 Oil Filter Relocation Kit for 2010-18 RAM 2500/3500 6.7L Cummins at Pacbrake

pacbrake.com

 

[Dyusik]

Have you seen this?

HP10593 Oil Filter Relocation Kit for 2010-18 RAM 2500/3500 6.7L Cummins

Check out the deal on HP10593 Oil Filter Relocation Kit for 2010-18 RAM 2500/3500 6.7L Cummins at Pacbrake

pacbrake.com

I have, their placement is typically in the line of fire from the front wheel. Plugging numbers in, my 42 feet of hose (3/4) yields 10 psi less of a loss. Not a better option.

I was thinking forward, up under the headlights or something. Normally there's some room to the left/right of the radiator, etc.

Thank you for the suggestion.