How Long for Full Lubrication?

[Leo]

Originally Posted By: JBT

My next question would be - Why is it recommended not to drive hard until the engine reaches its normal operating temp when all engine parts are already fully lubricated after about a minute from start-up?


Also the oil viscosity is too thick when cold and may cause caviation in the bearings at high RPM. Also the antiwear additives such as ZDDP are not fully active until the oil/engine friction surfaces has warmed some.

 

[Tanya]

Is it best if you do a lot of short trips each, that is, starting the engine many times in a day that a 5W -40 oil rather than a cheaper 15W - 40 oil should be used? My reasoning is that from the pie chart shown earlier in this thread that 5W -40 oil will be pumped to the farthest parts of the engine quicker than 15W - 40 oil.

 

[BigBird57]

There has to be something to having a diesel at the proper operating temperature. I have an Edge Juice with attitude on my 2005 Duramax diesel and it will not allow any extra fuel or timing changes until engines temps. are above 174 F. I use the Amsoil bypass filtration and their Series 3000 5w30 diesel oil.
I have logged over 40k miles with no oil change. I sevice filters and top off as needed. The UOA has been clean every time.

 

[maximus]

Just think of how long it takes the system to re-prime and oil to reach the furthest parts of the engine after an oil and filter change. This is one reason I don't change oil too often.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I would say immediately. Positive displacement pump and minimal volume of passages to traverse. With a vertically-mounted filter or properly working ADV, I'd assume the oil passages are filled/primed so that flow is instantaneous, even if pressure doesn't immediately shoot up.

Just thinking here, not stating facts.
It depends upon the temps of the oil at starting and the viscosity. Think of sucking up a thick milkshake through a straw as compared to milk sucked through a straw. the straw is the oil puckup tube from the bottom of the oil pan[sump]to the oil pump. Then do the same 'cept blow the fluids from the straw. There is oil left on the parts so it is not that bad if the proper viscosity oil is used.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`d say instantly as soon as you turn the key. My oil pressure guage reads around 65 psi instantly on cold idle start. Camshaft is completely submerged with oil as soon as the starter rotates the engine (and this is with a 25W50 oil). If I had a camera that had a sharp enough picture,I`d take a video clip of the cam while the engine is being started, I tried with my cellphone,but the quality isn`t good at all.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Since the engine has aluminum and steel parts in it which expand with heat different amounts. The engine parts are made so that they are the right size when at operating temperature, not when the engine is cold. So some bearings are loose, and the pistons are "loose" until the engine is hot.


^^Exactly! That`s why I`m a firm believer of letting an engine warm up,and not just starting it and immediately putting the accelerator to the floor. There`s a reason why fully warmed engines run and sound smoother.

 

[m37charlie]

According to SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949, "Preventing Catastrophic Cam Lobe Failures in Low Emission Diesel Engines" -
In a Cummins M11 engine, at -15C (+5 F., not that cold) it took to get a pressure of 10psi to the rocker arm shaft: 36 sec for 5W40, 78 sec for 15W40.
To get 10psi at the roller cam follower:
16 sec for 5W40, 39sec for 15W40.
They tested 4 different 15W40s for the rocker arm shaft test; some took up to 95sec. This is all cold-soaked at -15C.
Having said all this: if I were in the Phillippines I would use 15W40.My truck will be in the tropics for most of the next 2 years; the only reason I will use 5W40 is the long drain capability of my oil choice.

Charlie

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Charlie - Those times are fairly typical in my own experience. It should also be noted that the M11 engine (its forerunner was the infamous L10) is a "case history" engine - one perhaps where the case should not be opened......

 

[Lethal1ty17]

i have an eclipse v6 with the notorious lifter tick at startup, i let it idle long enough for the lifter tick to go away when they fill up with oil then start driving, keeping the revs low and shifting early.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
According to SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949, "Preventing Catastrophic Cam Lobe Failures in Low Emission Diesel Engines" -
In a Cummins M11 engine, at -15C (+5 F., not that cold) it took to get a pressure of 10psi to the rocker arm shaft: 36 sec for 5W40, 78 sec for 15W40.
To get 10psi at the roller cam follower:
16 sec for 5W40, 39sec for 15W40.
They tested 4 different 15W40s for the rocker arm shaft test; some took up to 95sec. This is all cold-soaked at -15C.
Having said all this: if I were in the Phillippines I would use 15W40.My truck will be in the tropics for most of the next 2 years; the only reason I will use 5W40 is the long drain capability of my oil choice.

Charlie



Wow,

This really makes me feel great about starting my Duramax at -30C with Rotella 15w-40. Back to the PC Duron 0w-40!

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
According to SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949, "Preventing Catastrophic Cam Lobe Failures in Low Emission Diesel Engines" -
In a Cummins M11 engine, at -15C (+5 F., not that cold) it took to get a pressure of 10psi to the rocker arm shaft: 36 sec for 5W40, 78 sec for 15W40.
To get 10psi at the roller cam follower:
16 sec for 5W40, 39sec for 15W40.
They tested 4 different 15W40s for the rocker arm shaft test; some took up to 95sec. This is all cold-soaked at -15C.
Having said all this: if I were in the Phillippines I would use 15W40.My truck will be in the tropics for most of the next 2 years; the only reason I will use 5W40 is the long drain capability of my oil choice.

Charlie



Wow,

This really makes me feel great about starting my Duramax at -30C with Rotella 15w-40. Back to the PC Duron 0w-40!
Picking the proper viscosity for starting temps is in the owners manual .

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Originally Posted By: JBT
The engine does sound different when I try to step a bit harder on a the accelerator on a cold engine. What causes this?
I think what you're hearing is all down to noise from the delay in diesel ignition when cold, can't see how you you would detect piston slap or similar with that racket going on. Also, I'd be using a 5W-40.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
if you are referring to startup from an overnight rest, it can take up to a minute for all the pressurized and non-pressurized areas to get oil.

This varies wildly from motor to motor by design

So are there any non-pressurized bearing surfaces in an engine? I guess parts of the valve train rely on some splash lubrication.
pistons, rings ,wristpins cam gears, chains as well.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
According to SAE Technical Article 2000-01-2949, "Preventing Catastrophic Cam Lobe Failures in Low Emission Diesel Engines" -
In a Cummins M11 engine, at -15C (+5 F., not that cold) it took to get a pressure of 10psi to the rocker arm shaft: 36 sec for 5W40, 78 sec for 15W40.
To get 10psi at the roller cam follower:
16 sec for 5W40, 39sec for 15W40.
They tested 4 different 15W40s for the rocker arm shaft test; some took up to 95sec. This is all cold-soaked at -15C.
Having said all this: if I were in the Phillippines I would use 15W40.My truck will be in the tropics for most of the next 2 years; the only reason I will use 5W40 is the long drain capability of my oil choice.

Charlie



Wow,

This really makes me feel great about starting my Duramax at -30C with Rotella 15w-40. Back to the PC Duron 0w-40!
Picking the proper viscosity for starting temps is in the owners manual .


I stand behind the article. Thanks for digging up my quote!

Charlie

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
as another piece of interesting information CAT is that recommends (for certain engine families) that a mineral 15W-40 lubricant be used (continuous use) only within the following ambient temperature range - -9.5C (15F) and 50C (122F)

One must consider cranking speed, electrical load and the sump/coolant capacity too! My DD Series 60s took up to 30mins or more to reach lubricant/coolant equilibrium. I always used a 5W-40 synthetic in an ambient range of -10C to 45C

 

[steve20]

""Also the antiwear additives such as ZDDP are not fully active until the oil/engine friction surfaces has warmed some.""

You have a very creative mind Leo

 

[Clevy]

Does anyone have any experience with the chev 5.3 and the ford 4.6 2v. How long til full lube on those motors. Thank you

 

[SteveSRT8]

we have a few 5.3 and 6.0 (same basic motor) in fleet trucks.

Proper weight oil means about 5 seconds to full oil pressure! Allow another 5 to travel to the top end.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Since the engine has aluminum and steel parts in it which expand with heat different amounts. The engine parts are made so that they are the right size when at operating temperature, not when the engine is cold. So some bearings are loose, and the pistons are "loose" until the engine is hot.


BINGO!!!

All engine have aluminum & steel parts but a diesel uses much larger piston to wall clearance than most gasoline engines... This is because they use forged pistons that expand more than the hyperteruic(SP?)that are generally in a gas engine(turbo & supercharged excepted)... Also the diesel combustion is more violent than gas, this contributes to causing the pistons to slap when they are cold...

When I owned my Diesel Olds I never put a load on the engine till it warmed enough to come off fast idle(120*), this even included a hot summer day... The people who bought it would take off with the engine stone cold, it busted a piston after approx 6mo...

JBT, I'm not saying you have to do same, your engine should be much stronger than those POS Olds, but I would give it maybe a minute to get the oil circulating and build a little heat in the pistons...