There are inserts that can be used with out removing the head . Did lots of them at work. The area has to be accessible though. I look for things like that when I purchase a vehicle and most vehicles these days are designed by over educated fools.
Honda J-series ejecting spark plug?
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Originally Posted By: CT8
There are inserts that can be used with out removing the head . Did lots of them at work. The area has to be accessible though. I look for things like that when I purchase a vehicle and most vehicles these days are designed by over educated fools.
I believe it's usually the back middle plug that comes out on these
There are inserts that can be used with out removing the head . Did lots of them at work. The area has to be accessible though. I look for things like that when I purchase a vehicle and most vehicles these days are designed by over educated fools.
I believe it's usually the back middle plug that comes out on these
Front center plug is #5 on my previously mentioned 07 Accord...don't know if it is different for the pilot. It is mentioned in the thread I posted
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surprisingly for the TL that I am looking at, the dealer which had fleeced that particular previous owner for thousands of dollars for other repairs, did not insist on doing the head job but did the customer go away with only helicoil install.
Originally Posted By: chevys10
Front center plug is #5 on my previously mentioned 07 Accord...don't know if it is different for the pilot. It is mentioned in the thread I posted
Yes, all Honda V-6s are numbered the same.
1-2-3 on righthand bank (rear, as mounted transversely)
4-5-6 on lefthand bank (front, as mounted transversely)
Firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6.
Front center plug is #5 on my previously mentioned 07 Accord...don't know if it is different for the pilot. It is mentioned in the thread I posted
Yes, all Honda V-6s are numbered the same.
1-2-3 on righthand bank (rear, as mounted transversely)
4-5-6 on lefthand bank (front, as mounted transversely)
Firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6.
So, what is the advice? Forget about this car or do the due diligence? When I cold started it, I thought the idle was not as smooth as it was after about couple minutes of running.
Without doing compression and leakdown test, is it possible to evaluate if the helicoil repair was success and there was no cylinder damage? I will have to go back and find out exactly when that repair was done and how many more miles on the vehicle since that time.
Without doing compression and leakdown test, is it possible to evaluate if the helicoil repair was success and there was no cylinder damage? I will have to go back and find out exactly when that repair was done and how many more miles on the vehicle since that time.
If the repair was done correctly, it's probably stronger than the original threads. Thread insert repairs can be very successful. There's probably no way of telling, however, what happened during the failure or what was done during the repair. Did the engine overheat as part of this, for example?
Is this a vehicle you are considering purchasing?
Is this a vehicle you are considering purchasing?
Originally Posted By: Vikas
So, what is the advice? Forget about this car or do the due diligence? When I cold started it, I thought the idle was not as smooth as it was after about couple minutes of running.
If it runs fine, it is probably fine.
If the mileage is higher, a valve adjustment may help the rough idle situation.
So, what is the advice? Forget about this car or do the due diligence? When I cold started it, I thought the idle was not as smooth as it was after about couple minutes of running.
If it runs fine, it is probably fine.
If the mileage is higher, a valve adjustment may help the rough idle situation.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
So, what is the advice? Forget about this car or do the due diligence? When I cold started it, I thought the idle was not as smooth as it was after about couple minutes of running.
Without doing compression and leakdown test, is it possible to evaluate if the helicoil repair was success and there was no cylinder damage? I will have to go back and find out exactly when that repair was done and how many more miles on the vehicle since that time.
If it was repaired with a helicoil forget it, walk away. That is not a acceptable long term repair, it is a hack to keep it going till you get rid of it.
Of course some guy will say i put one in 100K ago and no problems that’s the more the exception than the rule especially when it comes to aluminum heads.
A properly installed threaded aluminum insert is acceptable. If a Helicoil repair fails on an aluminum head it usually cannot be repaired again with a inset, its junk.
So, what is the advice? Forget about this car or do the due diligence? When I cold started it, I thought the idle was not as smooth as it was after about couple minutes of running.
Without doing compression and leakdown test, is it possible to evaluate if the helicoil repair was success and there was no cylinder damage? I will have to go back and find out exactly when that repair was done and how many more miles on the vehicle since that time.
If it was repaired with a helicoil forget it, walk away. That is not a acceptable long term repair, it is a hack to keep it going till you get rid of it.
Of course some guy will say i put one in 100K ago and no problems that’s the more the exception than the rule especially when it comes to aluminum heads.
A properly installed threaded aluminum insert is acceptable. If a Helicoil repair fails on an aluminum head it usually cannot be repaired again with a inset, its junk.
I will have to visit the selling dealer and look at the paperwork again. I do not recall which product was used for thread repair on that work order. I was not aware that helicoil is no no on aluminium head. I was always under impression that helicoil and timecert are essentially like coke/pepsi in thread repair job!
Trav, if the paperwork says timecert, I would like to bring it to you for the pre-purchase inspection! This is assuming we really want to go ahead with it.
Trav, if the paperwork says timecert, I would like to bring it to you for the pre-purchase inspection! This is assuming we really want to go ahead with it.
Give me a shout i will look at it for you, buy me a beer.
Helicoil and timeserts are two completely different animals. the helicoil is just steel threads, they don’t have the same heat transfer ability as aluminum so its not uncommon to have to go one heat range colder on that plug.
There is no way to insure the helicoil goes in 100% straight, sometimes they are off a hair which on a regular bolt makes little difference but on a plug it can cause sealing issues and ultimately failure.
Inserts on the other hand are full thread inside and out, they are anodized high grade aluminum and use a centering tool when reaming, drilling and tapping so they go in straight.
They are countersunk, locked in place and expand and contract at the same rate as the head, the heat transfer is the same so the plug heat range is unaffected.
That being said on an iron head engine you can probably get away with a helicoil if you get it straight, it still isn’t a repair i would do.
Any job done properly is a good repair that will last as long as the original or longer but when you start half arsing things it usually end up causing problems down the road.
Helicoil and timeserts are two completely different animals. the helicoil is just steel threads, they don’t have the same heat transfer ability as aluminum so its not uncommon to have to go one heat range colder on that plug.
There is no way to insure the helicoil goes in 100% straight, sometimes they are off a hair which on a regular bolt makes little difference but on a plug it can cause sealing issues and ultimately failure.
Inserts on the other hand are full thread inside and out, they are anodized high grade aluminum and use a centering tool when reaming, drilling and tapping so they go in straight.
They are countersunk, locked in place and expand and contract at the same rate as the head, the heat transfer is the same so the plug heat range is unaffected.
That being said on an iron head engine you can probably get away with a helicoil if you get it straight, it still isn’t a repair i would do.
Any job done properly is a good repair that will last as long as the original or longer but when you start half arsing things it usually end up causing problems down the road.
Would it be possible for you to *look* at the repair and determine if it was timesert or not? I do not know which plug it is but #5 (middle front) is most likely based on the internet.
I appreciate your offer but more importantly providing the information on the differences between the two approaches. If it says helicoil, I will drop it like hot potato which I would not have otherwise without your expertise.
I appreciate your offer but more importantly providing the information on the differences between the two approaches. If it says helicoil, I will drop it like hot potato which I would not have otherwise without your expertise.
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Torque? Torque?
My flat-rate tech friends just zap 'em down with their impact driver.
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Torque? Torque?
My flat-rate tech friends just zap 'em down with their impact driver.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: artificialist
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Torque? Torque?
My flat-rate tech friends just zap 'em down with their impact driver.
That's crazy, there are ways to cut time without doing shoddy work but that isn't one of them.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Torque? Torque?
My flat-rate tech friends just zap 'em down with their impact driver.
That's crazy, there are ways to cut time without doing shoddy work but that isn't one of them.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: artificialist
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Torque? Torque?
My flat-rate tech friends just zap 'em down with their impact driver.
That's crazy, there are ways to cut time without doing shoddy work but that isn't one of them.
They usually do the very last bit of tightening using a torque wrench, but something still seems off about it.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: artificialist
When someone installs new spark plugs in an aluminum head and doesn't torque them properly, it increases the risk of spark plug blowout.
Torque? Torque?
My flat-rate tech friends just zap 'em down with their impact driver.
That's crazy, there are ways to cut time without doing shoddy work but that isn't one of them.
They usually do the very last bit of tightening using a torque wrench, but something still seems off about it.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've never seen or heard of a tech using an impact on a plug, that just doesn't make sense. I can't think of any benefit in time or effort.
It saves a min or two per cylinder during the removal and initial re-install process.
I've never seen or heard of a tech using an impact on a plug, that just doesn't make sense. I can't think of any benefit in time or effort.
It saves a min or two per cylinder during the removal and initial re-install process.
I use an impact for spark plug removal; an impact can really help to break any bond without pulling threads. I've never used one for installation, though.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've never seen or heard of a tech using an impact on a plug, that just doesn't make sense. I can't think of any benefit in time or effort.
It saves a min or two per cylinder during the removal and initial re-install process.
That's the problem with flat rate it encourages this sort of stuff, its a slippery slope once the mechanic finds these little money makers.
Running them down once properly started then tightening by hand is one thing but impacting them in is another. They start out doing it that way but its not long before they figure out 2 or 3 hits with the small impact is close enough.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've never seen or heard of a tech using an impact on a plug, that just doesn't make sense. I can't think of any benefit in time or effort.
It saves a min or two per cylinder during the removal and initial re-install process.
That's the problem with flat rate it encourages this sort of stuff, its a slippery slope once the mechanic finds these little money makers.
Running them down once properly started then tightening by hand is one thing but impacting them in is another. They start out doing it that way but its not long before they figure out 2 or 3 hits with the small impact is close enough.
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