Help with oil decision! BMW M3

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only thing that bothers me is if a person has never used a product exactly how would they know anything about it.

It doesn't change the fact that his owner's manual specifically advises against the use of oil additives.

So if he does want to use it, he'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. And that is why I initially asked about the problem he was trying to fix. Most people don't just dump stuff into their crankcase for no reason, unless their name is GearHeadTool.

 

[domer10]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3316350/BMW_M3_10w-60?#Post3316350

Considering you asked this question previously, but added the fact this time that you plan on using the additive.

Its a forum, if you give people information they are likely to comment on it whether you give them the permission to or not



Now that its official and will be receiving car shortly, I wanted opinions on the ones I chose, and thanks to the responses such as to not use the 15w50....it helps cross ones of the list. And the good ol its a forum and I give people permission to comment whether I like or not doesn't change the fact that your comments add nothing to the discussion. So what I stated Im using ceretec thats all that you can add to this discussion? and throw in that I asked this question before. Thanks......real helpful.

 

[domer10]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only thing that bothers me is if a person has never used a product exactly how would they know anything about it.

It doesn't change the fact that his owner's manual specifically advises against the use of oil additives.

So if he does want to use it, he'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. And that is why I initially asked about the problem he was trying to fix. Most people don't just dump stuff into their crankcase for no reason, unless their name is GearHeadTool.



I really think that this additive should not be lumped in with all the other junk available on the market, I think of it more of a oil enhancer.....again everyone is entitled to their opinion. But this additive was formulated in a country that this car was manufactured in, Im thinking they took vehicles of this caliber into consideration when manufacturing this product.

 

[dparm]

Domer, I think people are asking how you know that it is an "enhancer". Did you run this for a while and get the oil analyzed? Can you definitively prove it helps?

If you want to run it for the feel-good factor, go for it. It's your car and your money. I'm a data-driven person, and I need evidence and hard-facts to start spending even more money on something like that.

 

[domer10]

If you read my previous post, i said I did not, and that I wished I had, all I had were physical traits of vehicle that changed. But I may do this now with this car, a before and after. But I did see UOA online of good stats and results, Ill try and locater those again. From other forums

 

[Brent_G]

Originally Posted By: domer10
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only thing that bothers me is if a person has never used a product exactly how would they know anything about it.

It doesn't change the fact that his owner's manual specifically advises against the use of oil additives.

So if he does want to use it, he'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. And that is why I initially asked about the problem he was trying to fix. Most people don't just dump stuff into their crankcase for no reason, unless their name is GearHeadTool.



I really think that this additive should not be lumped in with all the other junk available on the market, I think of it more of a oil enhancer.....again everyone is entitled to their opinion. But this additive was formulated in a country that this car was manufactured in, Im thinking they took vehicles of this caliber into consideration when manufacturing this product.


It still does not change the fact that BMW advises against any additives. As for where it was made, lucas is from the US but I wouldn't let that stuff near my cars. I see no reason for most additives and have used MOS2 and others.

If running it will make you sleep at night and feel that it is better protected than regular oil alone, its your car and your wallet my friend. Many have nothing but good things to say about it such as Clevy and their other products are quality.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: domer10
If you read my previous post, i said I did not, and that I wished I had, all I had were physical traits of vehicle that changed. But I may do this now with this car, a before and after. But I did see UOA online of good stats and results, Ill try and locater those again. From other forums


Yeah, I say go for it. Do a before and after with the same oil both times. No Ceratec the first time, then add it the second time. Keep us posted.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: domer10
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only thing that bothers me is if a person has never used a product exactly how would they know anything about it.

It doesn't change the fact that his owner's manual specifically advises against the use of oil additives.

So if he does want to use it, he'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. And that is why I initially asked about the problem he was trying to fix. Most people don't just dump stuff into their crankcase for no reason, unless their name is GearHeadTool.



I really think that this additive should not be lumped in with all the other junk available on the market, I think of it more of a oil enhancer.....again everyone is entitled to their opinion. But this additive was formulated in a country that this car was manufactured in, Im thinking they took vehicles of this caliber into consideration when manufacturing this product.


So what did the oil formulators leave out that make you want to use an additive?

Where the additive is made and where the car is made have nothing to do with each other.

 

[domer10]

No, it doesn't, but you people who advise to use against it feel free to show me evidence as why no one should use ceretec and mos2, If we who use it need to provide concrete proof as to it working, feel free to provide concrete proof as to it being harmful. Like I said I will do a before and after on my end.

 

[domer10]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: domer10
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Clevy
The only thing that bothers me is if a person has never used a product exactly how would they know anything about it.

It doesn't change the fact that his owner's manual specifically advises against the use of oil additives.

So if he does want to use it, he'd better have a darn good reason for doing so. And that is why I initially asked about the problem he was trying to fix. Most people don't just dump stuff into their crankcase for no reason, unless their name is GearHeadTool.





I really think that this additive should not be lumped in with all the other junk available on the market, I think of it more of a oil enhancer.....again everyone is entitled to their opinion. But this additive was formulated in a country that this car was manufactured in, Im thinking they took vehicles of this caliber into consideration when manufacturing this product.


So what did the oil formulators leave out that make you want to use an additive?

Where the additive is made and where the car is made have nothing to do with each other.



I never said they left anything out, just adding something to aid in less friction.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: domer10
No, it doesn't, but you people who advise to use against it feel free to show me evidence as why no one should use ceretec and mos2, If we who use it need to provide concrete proof as to it working, feel free to provide concrete proof as to it being harmful. Like I said I will do a before and after on my end.



One piece of evidence is that BMW says "do not put anything extra in the oil". Most blenders like Castrol, Mobil, Valvoline, Motul, etc also state that you should not add anything to the oil.

Just food for thought.

 

[Brent_G]

Originally Posted By: domer10
No, it doesn't, but you people who advise to use against it feel free to show me evidence as why no one should use ceretec and mos2, If we who use it need to provide concrete proof as to it working, feel free to provide concrete proof as to it being harmful. Like I said I will do a before and after on my end.


IMO if some of these additives did what they say on the bottle why would it not be used by a majority of the large blenders, and speced by manufacturers? With CAFE in the US car makers are doing everything they can to make more efficient engines with better emissions, if this single additive could give even .1 mpg don't you think they would be using it?

For protection - what data and tests do these additives have to back up their claims of better wear protection?

Anyways to get back on topic here - M1 0w40 is a great oil at a great price, and would serve you well.

 

[domer10]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: domer10
No, it doesn't, but you people who advise to use against it feel free to show me evidence as why no one should use ceretec and mos2, If we who use it need to provide concrete proof as to it working, feel free to provide concrete proof as to it being harmful. Like I said I will do a before and after on my end.



One piece of evidence is that BMW says "do not put anything extra in the oil". Most blenders like Castrol, Mobil, Valvoline, Motul, etc also state that you should not add anything to the oil.

Just food for thought.


I often feel they say it for a majority of the snake oils out there, I feel that Liqui Moly stuff......being a oil manufacturer themselves, are not any old additive.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Why doesn't Liqui Moly just blend all their premium oils with ceratec already in it? Are there any side effects that one needs to be concerned with? Would the resulting add pack be too rich to comply with API limits?

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Why doesn't Liqui Moly just blend all their premium oils with ceratec already in it? Are there any side effects that one needs to be concerned with? Would the resulting add pack be too rich to comply with API limits?



Here's an old discussion we had on it that's interesting:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695462

 

[domer10]

Im def going to get sample from my ram with ceratec...but I don't have a sample without it so can really form a baseline to see if it did anything. As hard as it is, I may skip it on initial oil change in the M3 run it to x amount of k........then add ceratec at next oil change and run same amount of k.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: dparm

One piece of evidence is that BMW says "do not put anything extra in the oil". Most blenders like Castrol, Mobil, Valvoline, Motul, etc also state that you should not add anything to the oil.

Just food for thought.


Yeah, but what do they know?

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: domer10
Im def going to get sample from my ram with ceratec...but I don't have a sample without it so can really form a baseline to see if it did anything. As hard as it is, I may skip it on initial oil change in the M3 run it to x amount of k........then add ceratec at next oil change and run same amount of k.


The lab results would be interesting.

We have had the worse cold weather in many years this far south so I quite our Ceratec project in the dead of winter. Before we pulled off due to cold we did get 11 hours of run time at idle on a 2002 325cc Polaris Magnum 4x4 ATV that had ran without oil after an oil cooler hose blew and the guy did not stop until it was hammering so running down the highway. It had spun the rod bearing inserts and chewed up the crank and connecting rod.

We used a little emery cloth on the crank and went back with a new set of inserts and rings and a used connecting rod and the rest were the same parts that came with the blown engine in the ATV.

After 11 hours or about one million rotations it was back to knocking when we got on it. On tear down it was easy to see the slick glass looking coating on the cam and its bearing surfaces both the steel and aluminum. While the crank was still in bad shape it was shiny from the coating.

After about 1 hour of idle time the RPM's picked up a bit so I am quite sure the rod bearing would not have held up more than an hour if that long without the Ceratex added to the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 oil.

The bore showed some lines that I could not feel with my finger nail but after running the Ceratec there where more visual places and it may have been where cylinder imperfections filled with the ceramic coating.

We found a tight lower end complete case with connecting rod in place and a nice looking jug and piston (mates) so hopefully we will get back to work on getting it running soon.

One has to tear an engine down to see the Ceratec finish at develops over time with heat/friction. The blown Polaris engine was just a good 'hack' project to give the 16 year old son some wrenching experience.

Ceratec is not required in most cases I am sure but I can not think of a case where it would hurt an engine. I would not run in an engine with wet clutches running in the motor oil however. Because this Polaris is only oil cooled and those lines over time can blow and lead to a blown engine I think run time Ceratec might give one with NO motor oil a plus in this application. We have 2 4.3L and a 5.3L and 7.4L GM engines I plan to use it or Archoil AR9300 additive which may have an edge over Liquid Moly Ceratec but I do know Ceratec makes metal wear points in an engine have less friction by laying down a protective ceramic finish.

 

[kschachn]

They would be? What will they show?

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: domer10
Im def going to get sample from my ram with ceratec...but I don't have a sample without it so can really form a baseline to see if it did anything. As hard as it is, I may skip it on initial oil change in the M3 run it to x amount of k........then add ceratec at next oil change and run same amount of k.


The lab results would be interesting.

 

[domer10]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
They would be? What will they show?

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: domer10
Im def going to get sample from my ram with ceratec...but I don't have a sample without it so can really form a baseline to see if it did anything. As hard as it is, I may skip it on initial oil change in the M3 run it to x amount of k........then add ceratec at next oil change and run same amount of k.


The lab results would be interesting.



Im hoping less wear numbers, as stated above it does seem to do that with laying a protective coating on all friction parts. I did see increase in MPG in ram, 1.5-2mpg, but I'm not in it for that, if i can prevent less wear on my engine than thats allI care about, I like to take care of my things.