fram filters

[motorguy222]

I dont have a fetish for metal endcaps,I do like them better,I think that a filter is made much better when metal is used.

I am not real concerned about cardboard endcaps as long as they are glued and not thermally bonded.I do like metal better.

The argument that the cardbaord falls apart may be true but the filter material in most filters is paper.

They are both soaked with oil.

As I have said more than once,I dont use Frams.

The question is;

Are they as bad as many on the board say that they are?

As I asked before,what real evidenve does anyone have that says that Frams are bad?

I am not talking about start-up noise,I am talking about their filtering capability.

Are they hurting an engine?

Also,the 'cost' of a filter in regards to their construction is subjective from one person to another.

I used to use Frams and they seemed to have done fine for me.

We have read where others have used them for 150-200K miles with no problems.

What is of interest is,if the same construction was used in filters made by Champ,WIX or some other company,would they get bashed like Fram?

 

[kanling]

... because I prefer to learn from other people's mistakes and avoid the costs of my own.

 

[motorguy222]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kanling:
... because I prefer to learn from other people's mistakes and avoid the costs of my own.

---

What mistakes are they?

What proof do you have that the mistakes were the filters fault and not from neglect?

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by motorguy222:

quote:

---

Originally posted by kanling:
... because I prefer to learn from other people's mistakes and avoid the costs of my own.

---

What mistakes are they?

What proof do you have that the mistakes were the filters fault and not from neglect?

---

What proof do you have that there is anything wrong with thermally bonded end caps?

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by motorguy222:

Frams fail but are they as bad as some have made them out to be. [/QB]

---

That's purely opinion based, how are we to prove if somethings is "as bad as some have made them out to be". How bad ARE they made out to be? Seems pretty vague to me?

What proof do you have that a Fram extra guard is better in ANY way then ANY other filter? What proof do you have that they are safe? It's easy to make an argument when you demand proof with no proof on the other side.

This is an online message board, not a court room, laboratory or scientific conference. While definitive proof is a great thing to have it's a lot to ask from a bunch of people sitting at their computer in their free time. That doesn't mean there is no value to the discussion.

-T

 

[motorguy222]

The proof regarding the thermally bonded endcaps is that they are not yet a truly proven technology.

It seems that they did have some trouble with the bonding at first.It may still be a problem.

Many people stay away from new designs regarding automobiles and related products.

Many will not buy a newly designed/new model cars because the bugs havent been worked out of them.

The Fram filter design and construction that is being discussed has been around for many years.

The Fram construction has been quite consistant and has changed little if any.

Taking this into consideration,there is no comparison between the Fram design and the endcaps that labman mentioned.

Fram gets bashed over and over and there has not been any real first hand proof showing that Frams are bad.

Do they fail?

According to what we have been told,every filter has a failure at some point.

Do Frams fail more than others?

Again,no one has given first hand proof of such.

We still have no proof that a Fram will harm an engine in normal OCI's.

 

[motorguy222]

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:

---

That's purely opinion based, how are we to prove if somethings is "as bad as some have made them out to be". How bad ARE they made out to be? Seems pretty vague to me?

What proof do you have that a Fram extra guard is better in ANY way then ANY other filter? What proof do you have that they are safe? It's easy to make an argument when you demand proof with no proof on the other side.

This is an online message board, not a court room, laboratory or scientific conference. While definitive proof is a great thing to have it's a lot to ask from a bunch of people sitting at their computer in their free time. That doesn't mean there is no value to the discussion.

-T [/QB][/QUOTE]


You are exactly right Keith and I am glad you made the point you did.

NONE of us have any real proof regarding the integrity of a filter.

For the most part,it is opinions and feelings that are spoken in regards to filters.

Considering this,exactly why are Frams so bad for 3 month/3K OCI's?

Fram filters may not be any better or any worse than any other filter but if you do a search regadring Frams,you will get many many comments about how bad they are.

Is this really just the mentality of the 'he said she said' type of stuff or are the filters really that bad.

We all have probably read where that a brothers sisters husbands uncles wifes car was ruined by a Fram.

Are Frams as bad as some say?

 

[kevz]

Wow...another Fram thread

I don't use Fram oil filters because I can find a better value.

Thats all I have to say.

 

[farrarfan1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beachboy:
I used Fram filters exclusively on my 1984 BMW 325E which I owned for 14 years. I bought the car new, and changed the oil myself every 3,000 miles and the car had over 251,000 miles on it when I traded it in. The engine didn't burn oil at all, and it ran like new. Do I still use Frams? NO....because with my new car, I let the dealer do all the oil changes. I've gotten to the age where crawling under cars and getting dirty simply isn't that appealing anymore. Plus, my neighbors were getting cranky about me dumping my used oil in their garden!

---

Beachboy? Northeast Kansas? Had to scratch my head over this one.By the way

 

[pmwalter]

I wouldn't mind using the cheap Fram filter because of my 2-3 month OCI's.

I figure it's good for at least that.

 

[motorguy222]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Killer-B:
Jeeezz. I have used many of fram oil filters.
BUT, I will never use one again.
A little education goes a long way.

---

Why?

Did you have a problem with one or is it because of what you have read,seen,heard?

If you have used them and never had a problem,why are they so bad now?

 

[BlazerLT]

Motorguy, you need to stop arguing against FACT.

Do you know how many technical service bulletins car manufacturers have sent out telling people if they are having startup knock to NOT use a Fram filter.

80% of engine wear occurs on startup so with a Fram, you are making it even worse.

Stop arguing against proven fact.

Yes, I witnessed my friends 5.0L mustang blow the oil filter right off of the block seeig the filter media failed and collapsed inside causing an oil pressure blowout. It was a Fram. And when you saw how the insides folded up, you wouldn't be arguing endlessly about these pieces of ****.

 

[daemonite]

oh other thing, quality...

the frams always feel lighter, thinner and a bit more rough around the threads. You can feel a lot of shavings and grit left over from the threading. Something I never see on other filters.

 

[Raven18940]

quote:

---

Originally posted by motorguy222:
Why?

Did you have a problem with one or is it because of what you have read,seen,heard?

If you have used them and never had a problem,why are they so bad now?

---

Personally, I cut one open and I thought, in my completely unqualified opinion, that the construction was very cheap. Especially compared to the Saab filter I can have for about the same money that has a much better bypass valve design and more filter material. I have no evidence of failure, but I think my $4 is better spent else where, maybe a purolator or ac delco.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by daemonite:
oh other thing, quality...

the frams always feel lighter, thinner and a bit more rough around the threads. You can feel a lot of shavings and grit left over from the threading. Something I never see on other filters.

---

If you havn't personally seen a Fram filter destroy an engine, they're good filters.

 

[Buick92]

I guess the millions and millions of cars out there that have frams on them right now are at risk of early death! Never buy a used car ever again!!!

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Raven18940:
snip....Personally, I cut one open and I thought, in my completely unqualified opinion, that the construction was very cheap. Especially compared to the Saab filter I can have for about the same money that has a much better bypass valve design and more filter material. I have no evidence of failure, but I think my $4 is better spent else where, maybe a purolator or ac delco.

---

 

[Gary Allan]

The whole argument against the use of a Fram filter isn't in terms of performance (ADBV exceptions noted - but only for annoyance - not performance). It's in term of value. There are better choices for the same $$ spent.

You can pay 40k for a brand new Cavalier ..or for a brand new low end MB. Which are you going to choose? If you're going to buy a Fram ..buy a ST or other $2.xx filter. You'll have as good or better performance and more change in your pocket.

That's about it

 

[T-Keith]

Why can't a person recommend for or against something without a comprehensive scientific study? If no one can state something about a product without verifiable proof then we should disable almost every user on this board. How many people have verifiable proof that Auto-RX works or that one UOA is better then the other?

If I've personally seen dozens Fram filters with failed ADBVs and even have a picture showing one preserved in hardened rubber, and I've never witnessed a failed Purolator filter, I think that I can recommended Purolators over Frams. In fact I think that I would be right in saying that they are better and a Fram is bad enough to not use at all.

If you think differently, then good for you, but I will continue to do it, because I think that enough people would agree with me.

-T

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by labman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Raven18940:
snip....Personally, I cut one open and I thought, in my completely unqualified opinion, that the construction was very cheap. Especially compared to the Saab filter I can have for about the same money that has a much better bypass valve design and more filter material. I have no evidence of failure, but I think my $4 is better spent else where, maybe a purolator or ac delco.

---

---

I don't understand how the following disappeared from my last post.

Curious, is your Saab filter an end cap less one like the one pictured at http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002784? I strongly feel a steel end cap is not the major factor in the quality of a filter. I will continue to diss Fram for the general thrown together construction, and lack of filter media until given solid documentation that their filter media is really 2-3 times better than others use.

Note, some here don't like the looks of the clicker bypass, but nobody responded when I asked for supporting data. Anybody? I am much more concerned about this since ST switched the ST 3950 to a clicker.