Ford V10 and Synthetic Oils

[lasmacgod]

I have a 2000 F250 with V10 and 195k on the odometer. When I first bought it a year ago, I changed the oil using MC filter and MC 5W-20 oil. The noises and rattles at startup were unbearable, and just got worse as winter set in. When it came time to change the oil again, I installed a MC filter and MC 5W-30 oil. Noises went away. I had very little oil usage between oil changes with either oil, maybe 1 quart over 4-5k miles.

I went to AmsOil 5W-30 and AmsOil filter. I suddenly started losing a quart of oil at about every 750 miles. No smoke, no fouled plugs, no leaks. On the ford-trucks forums, I am finding that this is common for the V10 and synthetic oils.

Here is my question. I would love to stay with synthetics if I can. If running a good, fully synthetic oil (like Mobil 1, Rotella, AmsOil, etc.), can I step up to a thicker oil, like 10W-40, 5W-40, etc.? Would the thicker oil even minimize the oil consumption? The guys on the ford-trucks forums are great, but absolutely go crazy when straying away from anything Ford approves. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I also have no problem going back to MC 5W-30, but would rather stick with full synthetics if possible.

For a little background, I live in Kansas. Temperatures run anywhere from -10 to 110 degrees.

 

[dparm]

No reason to move to a 10wXX. I'd stick with a 5w30 or 5w40.

 

[demarpaint]

I wouldn't use a 10w-xx or a 40 grade oil. Try either a 0W30 or a 5W30 oil. German Castrol 0W30 would be something worth trying or Edge 5W30. I've using Edge 0W20 and 5W30 in two different vehicles and have noticed both oils are very quiet running, more so than M1 PP or Amsoil products that I've used in the past. It might be worth a try.

 

[Pablo]

Which Amsoil 5W-30 did you try? How many OCI's did you run?

In that engine I recommend the Amsoil XLF 5W-30 for 5-7.5K and under OCI's. And for longer OCI's, Amsoil HDD 5W-30.

 

[stockrex]

what is wrong with MC 5w20?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: lasmacgod


I went to AmsOil 5W-30 and AmsOil filter. I suddenly started losing a quart of oil at about every 750 miles. No smoke, no fouled plugs, no leaks. On the ford-trucks forums, I am finding that this is common for the V10 and synthetic oils.



That's a lot of oil use. I'm guessing that is the only Synthetic you tried? I wouldn't use that oil anymore, try GC 0W30, or just stay with a good dino oil. I'm sure the MC 5W30 would continue to serve you well.

 

[lasmacgod]

stockrex: Nothing wrong with MC 5W-20 in and of itself. In fact, I've had very good luck with it in the past in other vehicles. In this truck though, it sounds like a slight knock on startup in summer, and a very bad knock in the winter, for about 30 to 45 seconds.

Pablo: I am running the ASL. I have about 6 months and 5k on it now. I average 12k miles a year, so I usually run AmsOil for a full year, with very good analysis results in prior vehicles. So far, I have had to add 4 quarts in the past 6 months/5k. Frequency of oil usage is dependent on what I am doing with the truck. Short commutes to work, less usage. Highway running, and/or loaded, more oil consumption.

demarpaint: I have eyeballed Castrol, just haven't done enough research on it yet. Part of the reason I'm asking is to pick the brains of knowledgeable members such as yourself about good oils.

 

[LordAbbett]

I'd screw an oil pressure gauge in place of the oil pressure sender to see what the oil pressure actually is before putting 40 weight oil in it. 40 may be very unnecessary.
If it's not leaking it's strange that it would burn that much amsoil.
i used to have a 2003 Excursion w/10. Never ran 5/20. I always just put in 5/30 conventional. That truck nerver really used any oil.

 

[Old Mustang Guy]

I'm a Ford guy and a 5W20 user but I think it may not be the best choice for you. You could try another syn, perhaps a high mileage syn in 5W30, go back to MC 5W30 or perhaps to something like Valvoline Maxlife, available in blend or syn. I keep thinking I may switch my Escape with 160k to Maxlife but so far it still doesn't burn any oil and PP 5W20 or MC still works great.

 

[OVERKILL]

My parent's Expedition made all kinds of exciting noise when we switched from 5w30 to 5w20. It is currently on it's 2nd run of 0w40. First was M1 0w40, currently PC 0w40. No noise with either. No noise with 5w30 of course either.

I've got a pile of M1 AFE 0w30 showing up Sunday for my next OCI. I'll let you know how my Expedition likes it. It currently has PC 0w40 in it too.

Motorcraft filters on both Expeditions BTW.

The 5.4L and the V10 have a lot in common. Since the V10 is essentially a 5.4L with two more cylinders.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: lasmacgod
Pablo: I am running the ASL. I have about 6 months and 5k on it now. I average 12k miles a year, so I usually run AmsOil for a full year, with very good analysis results in prior vehicles. So far, I have had to add 4 quarts in the past 6 months/5k. Frequency of oil usage is dependent on what I am doing with the truck. Short commutes to work, less usage. Highway running, and/or loaded, more oil consumption.



First ASL run. You have some serious ring clean-up, ring escape going on. I would get a bottle of Amsoil flush, follow directions, and change oil. Give the ASL another shot if you want, or switch to XLF or HDD. Sometimes the consumption goes down after the first use, sometimes it takes two or three runs - you are pushing 200K. I'm sure you have some gumbo on your rings.

 

[demarpaint]

Gumbo on the rings is certainly a possibility. Since winter is just around the corner you could try your favorite dino oil and a qt of MMO. MMO does a great job of cleaning, and aids in cold winter starts. After that give the Amsoil a try again if you like.

 

[modularv8]

I had the same exact problem while using 5w20 QSHP synthetic and MC blend. I switched to QS 5w30 synthetic and the problem is completely gone. I endured the start-up rattle/knock for 4 oci's thinking maybe it was a dud filter (MC FL820s), but no it was the 5w20. What is interesting is that it now takes the truck (F150 5.4l 3v) nearly twice as long to reach operating temperature (same ambient temperatures, same conditions). Either way it is very smooth and quiet now.

 

[lasmacgod]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
First ASL run. You have some serious ring clean-up, ring escape going on. I would get a bottle of Amsoil flush, follow directions, and change oil. Give the ASL another shot if you want, or switch to XLF or HDD. Sometimes the consumption goes down after the first use, sometimes it takes two or three runs - you are pushing 200K. I'm sure you have some gumbo on your rings.


I forgot to mention that I did run AmsOil flush prior to switching over to AmsOil.

I have converted high mileage vehicles to synthetic, usually AmsOil, in the past, and this is the first one where the consumption increased. Usually it decreases.

A common belief on the other forum I mentioned earlier, is that synthetic oils have a solvent in them that evaporates quickly in the long oil pan of the V10. I call B.S. Just thought some of you might get a chuckle out of that.

I would just like to know where it is going. Like I said before, no smoke, no fouled plugs, no leaks, no nothing. That is the part that is driving me nuts.

I'll stick with it and see what happens. If it is still consuming when I change the oil, I'll run another flush, whether it be MMO or AmsOil. If it still consumes after that, I guess I'll look at going back to MC 5W-30.

 

[demarpaint]

Why not try a different brand of 5W30 synthetic oil? Unless you already have the Amsoil. IMO it would be cheaper and easier to get, especially if you are burning up the Amsoil at the same rate you burnt the first fill of it.

Sounds to me like you've done everything right prepping for the Amsoil. I don't think I'd have the patience to wait and hope for the burning to stop, possibly 2-3 OCI's down the road.

JMO

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: lasmacgod

I forgot to mention that I did run AmsOil flush prior to switching over to AmsOil.

I have converted high mileage vehicles to synthetic, usually AmsOil, in the past, and this is the first one where the consumption increased. Usually it decreases.

A common belief on the other forum I mentioned earlier, is that synthetic oils have a solvent in them that evaporates quickly in the long oil pan of the V10. I call B.S. Just thought some of you might get a chuckle out of that.

I would just like to know where it is going. Like I said before, no smoke, no fouled plugs, no leaks, no nothing. That is the part that is driving me nuts.

I'll stick with it and see what happens. If it is still consuming when I change the oil, I'll run another flush, whether it be MMO or AmsOil. If it still consumes after that, I guess I'll look at going back to MC 5W-30.


The Amsoil flush won't clean 190K rings on the first usage. It just gets the old oil out, and maybe softens varnish a bit.

Yeah, you are smart, no solvent in synthetic oil. Trust me, the engine is burning the oil. It's going right by the rings. You need to get those rings completely free and loose. MMO will help. You could go ahead and add the MMO now. A little patience is necessary with older engine, but yes after the 3rd OCI - if consumption is the same - then you should just stick with low cost dino.

 

[stockrex]

lasmacgod, how a about a syn of higher weight as mentioned by others, you get better cold flow or maybe less consumption

 

[Trav]

Overkill is right about it having a lot in common with the 5.4.
These things can get downright loud depending on where the noise is coming from,the knock you hear is common and is not usually not bottom end related but a hydraulic lash adjuster or a rusted off exhaust manifold bolt.

I have seen them get quieter (never silent once they get noisy) using both lighter and heavier oil depending on what's causing the noise.
Piston slap engines get better with heavier weight and lash adjuster noise is helped by lighter weight.They also are known for horrible timing chain noise,the adjuster's goes bad,nothing helps with this noise.

Try some Kreen from Kano Labs in this engine,add16oz to the oil every 1k for 3k total then change the oil.It will free up the rings (a major cause of oil use) and unstick any stuck adjusters.
Use only Motorcraft oil filters (820s) in these modular engines,there are lots of reports of other makes causing startup noise.

 

[Cujet]

I discovered that my 4.6L modular F150 did best on Mobil 1 10-30.

 

[jorton]

Originally Posted By: lasmacgod
I also have no problem going back to MC 5W-30, but would rather stick with full synthetics if possible.


I think Motorcraft full synthetic is 5w-30. If you can't get it, try using Mobil 1 0w-30.