Finally got Linux Mint Downloaded

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: csandste
Windows intrusive behavior is but one of many reasons to kick it to the curb.


Possibly nowhere is that obnoxiousness more apparent than when Windows'll update and mess up the dual-boot environment that the user thought they had finally set up properly.

I will say again that virtualisation will mitigate this and allow you to operate the two OS's simultaneously and infinitely more simply. And if booting one or the other OS is acceptable, sometimes it is just easier to get a second HDD or SSD and hit the darn F12 key or equivalent during boot to choose the appropriate drive.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: csandste
Windows intrusive behavior is but one of many reasons to kick it to the curb.


Possibly nowhere is that obnoxiousness more apparent than when Windows'll update and mess up the dual-boot environment that the user thought they had finally set up properly.

I will say again that virtualisation will mitigate this and allow you to operate the two OS's simultaneously and infinitely more simply. And if booting one or the other OS is acceptable, sometimes it is just easier to get a second HDD or SSD and hit the darn F12 key or equivalent during boot to choose the appropriate drive.



I've been told by a good friend who is very well versed with Windows and the Linux OS that the best setup is exactly what you said. Having two SSD or HDDs, one with Windows and the other with Linux, Ubuntu, or the like, and choose the drive with the OS you want during boot up.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I then rebooted my machine. There was no "grub" menu upon start-up. It went right into the HP, then Windows, start-up routines into Windows. I then rebooted again, hit escape, and it brought me to my BIOS options. I chose F9 which allowed me to go to boot options where I selected the Ubuntu option. This selection took me to the screen (labeled grub at the top), and selected Cinanamon, and it loaded Mint.

Well, what the hey! I'm beginning to wonder if there's some non-standard implementation of secure boot in this case. When mine was acting up, at least it would go to the GRUB menu at least once, and only act up when I happened to go into Windows. Then, I realized I was trying to get it to ignore Windows, which didn't work in that regard, and as soon as I corrected the list, all was well. I'm sure that the boot list is changing each time you edit it, but just isn't being persistent with each reboot. I've got a couple more ideas, but csandste and uc50ic4more might have the right idea about kicking Windows to the curb altogether. I'm stubborn, though, and have only failed once when I tried to set up dual boot, at which time I did kick Windows entirely to the curb. In fairness, secure boot does complicate things seriously, and I fear what uc50ic4more said about Windows update screwing things up if we get it working, or, for that matter, Mint update screwing it up, which is what happened to me, giving me the unwanted experience in mucking about in it.

Try:

sudo efibootmgr -n 0002

Then do an immediate reboot and see whether it brings up a Grub screen or we still haven't made any progress. Beyond that, what I also want to determine is which of 3001 and 3002 is Linux and which is Windows, if either. If it brings up a Grub screen, I doubt it will be permanent, but I just want to see if I can force it for one reboot.

The contents of:

sudo efibootmgr -v

might be helpful, too. I still have a couple other ideas floating around my mind right now, too, but we'll see what we can do first. You might have to accept the kludge of the keystabs to bring up the boot options until/if I can figure this out.

If you don't need Windows at all, of course, this is all for naught except education.

 

[Sierra048]

Originally Posted By: csandste
Dual booting difficulties is a reminder that I dual booted Ubuntu 12.04 and Windows for about a week before getting Windows out of there for good. That original computer is still running Peppermint Linux 7 and my main ride is Mint Mate 17.3 which I'll be swapping out for Ubuntu Mate 18.04. In more than four years of being Linux only I've never regretted stomping Windows into the ground. Windows intrusive behavior is but one of many reasons to kick it to the curb.


Just curious. Did you just wipe out Windows and install Linux? If so, did you have any problems doing it? During this whole ordeal I've read a lot of articles about Linux. The Linux Mint that I can run on my computer now appears to work fine. Can I assume that if I did want to get rid of Windows, the Linux Mint installer on my bootable USB would over-write Windows and Install Linux Mint without any problems?

I wasn't aware that there are companies that make new computers with Linux on them instead of Windows. Hypothetcal question: Could I go to, say Walmart, and buy an HP, Acer, Dell etc. laptop, just so I could delete Windows and install Linux Mint via the bootable USB complete install option? Would I encounter any issues or should it be a straight forward process? Some articles I read offered advice on what older, used computers, would be good choices for Linux Mint. Except for maybe memory requirements, why wouldn't any used Windows computer be able to do what I'm asking. Sorry, it's just confusing to me.

 

[simple_gifts]

The more 'consumer oriented' a PC is, the more likely you will have issues installing linux.

As recommended by MANY people here, buying a refurb business machine from a place like arrowdirect will be more satisfying in the end.

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426

Those are 'certified' machines; if it isn't listed it doesn't mean linux won't run well.

Business oriented machines with have more well supported chip sets for wireless etc.

Stuff sold @ Walmart etc no vendor is going to spend 1 minute certifying it for linux. Those are 'throw away designs'

If you are looking for a new machine check out www.system76.com; they don't sell junk.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Just curious. Did you just wipe out Windows and install Linux? If so, did you have any problems doing it? During this whole ordeal I've read a lot of articles about Linux. The Linux Mint that I can run on my computer now appears to work fine. Can I assume that if I did want to get rid of Windows, the Linux Mint installer on my bootable USB would over-write Windows and Install Linux Mint without any problems?


Part of the installation sequence involves drive partitioning. One of the easily-selected options is to wipe the drive and install your Linux-based OS.

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I wasn't aware that there are companies that make new computers with Linux on them instead of Windows. Hypothetcal question: Could I go to, say Walmart, and buy an HP, Acer, Dell etc. laptop, just so I could delete Windows and install Linux Mint via the bootable USB complete install option? Would I encounter any issues or should it be a straight forward process? Some articles I read offered advice on what older, used computers, would be good choices for Linux Mint. Except for maybe memory requirements, why wouldn't any used Windows computer be able to do what I'm asking. Sorry, it's just confusing to me.


I have never done anything *but* buy a computer, bring it home and install Linux (usually Ubuntu these days).

There are very few companies manufacturing systems with a desktop Linux of any sort pre-loaded. Dell, System76 come to mind.

If you have a few minutes Google for getting the money back you paid when you bought a Windows-loaded computer!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I wasn't aware that there are companies that make new computers with Linux on them instead of Windows. Hypothetcal question: Could I go to, say Walmart, and buy an HP, Acer, Dell etc. laptop, just so I could delete Windows and install Linux Mint via the bootable USB complete install option? Would I encounter any issues or should it be a straight forward process? Some articles I read offered advice on what older, used computers, would be good choices for Linux Mint. Except for maybe memory requirements, why wouldn't any used Windows computer be able to do what I'm asking. Sorry, it's just confusing to me.

Most of that's been covered in the last two posts, but I've had experience with that, too. First, old computer are nice for that, giving an old box some new life. My first Linux box was almost 15 years, an early LTS version of Ubuntu with FreeDOS on dual boot; it was refurbished and the XP "install" was a disaster, so I overwrote that.

You can run into to odd hardware issue, but they're not that common. Early on nVidia drivers were a bit of an issue, and could take some work if using the proprietary versions. That's really not necessary, so fairly easy to avoid. Some years back, my install wasn't liking the wireless card, but I never used wireless, so I never sought to get it working. I had a minor Pulse Audio sound issue once, but resolved that from the command line. On that system, I hadn't used dual boot, either, just wiped out XP and never looked back.

I do try to help guys getting dual boot set up, since some do not want to dispose of Windows entirely. As I mentioned, I only play a couple old games in Windows. For everything else, including printing, spreadsheets, burning CDs, banking, coming here, I use Mint.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I wasn't aware that there are companies that make new computers with Linux on them instead of Windows. Hypothetcal question: Could I go to, say Walmart, and buy an HP, Acer, Dell etc. laptop, just so I could delete Windows and install Linux Mint via the bootable USB complete install option? Would I encounter any issues or should it be a straight forward process? Some articles I read offered advice on what older, used computers, would be good choices for Linux Mint. Except for maybe memory requirements, why wouldn't any used Windows computer be able to do what I'm asking. Sorry, it's just confusing to me.


I have never done anything *but* buy a computer, bring it home and install Linux (usually Ubuntu these days).

There are very few companies manufacturing systems with a desktop Linux of any sort pre-loaded. Dell, System76 come to mind.

If you have a few minutes Google for getting the money back you paid when you bought a Windows-loaded computer! [/quote]


Ehh...what you need for a fresh install is this... https://dban.org

 

[Sierra048]

I only asked about buying a new computer and wiping out Windows for Linux as a back-up alternative. Something I could do quickly just in case my current HP computer becomes an anchor by installing Linux, erasing Windows, and not being able to get either one back.

I certainly wouldn't mind a good, reasonably priced, used computer should I need one. Especially if it was Linux Mint ready and tested as such. I've looked at some of the recommended new computer companies that offer computers already loaded with Linux. Unfortunately it appears they are going to be priced higher than what I can spend. I was hoping these companies not having to sell their souls to Microsoft might make them a little more affordable for me. It doesn't appear to be the case at this point.

Best case scenario for me at this point is to hope my present laptop continues to work well with Linux, especially if I take the plunge to make it Linux Mint only.

 

[Sierra048]

Garak,

I just read an article on installing Linux Mint. It said Secure Boot needed to be disabled on a Widows machine before installation. I didn't even know what Secure Boot was before I installed Mint so it was definitely enabled. Do you think this might be the source of my dual-booting problem?

Also, I mentioned earlier I have an empty Seagate external hard drive hooked to my computer by USB cable. Could I install Linux Mint onto the external drive and have it work like it does now on my computer drive? Would there be any advantages to doing this?

I was thinking that if I could put it on the extetnal drive and something happened to my computer, I could replace it with another computer, plug the external drive in and be able to have Mint right away. Or would this be uneccessary?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I just read an article on installing Linux Mint. It said Secure Boot needed to be disabled on a Widows machine before installation. I didn't even know what Secure Boot was before I installed Mint so it was definitely enabled. Do you think this might be the source of my dual-booting problem?

Also, I mentioned earlier I have an empty Seagate external hard drive hooked to my computer by USB cable. Could I install Linux Mint onto the external drive and have it work like it does now on my computer drive? Would there be any advantages to doing this?

As for your first paragraph, that could very well have caused problems. It never hurts to simply reinstall Mint with the secure boot disabled, following everything else as you did before, and see what happens. Maybe then it will dual boot from the start, or with a couple efibootmgr tweaks. It's worth a shot if you don't mind trying it.

It might be technically possible to use an external USB drive for the install. I've never tried it. The only thing that would concern me off the top of my head would be the possibility that UUID numbers would be fluid and Linux might not like that from a boot partition. But, I haven't tried, so I cannot say.

In general, don't even worry about possibly not getting Linux working with this computer or bricking it. Aside from the secure boot hiccups, you will get one flavour or another working well. I'll show you the command line to backing up your stuff, too, once you get it set up the way you want, so you can get yourself back up and running in minutes if you needed to change a drive or something like that. Trying to set it up for one piece of hardware and then migrating it wouldn't be ideal.

I've gotten every system I've ever tried to work with Linux work with one flavour or another. Secure boot is just throwing us a curveball, which is certainly not insurmountable, given persistence, a kludge, or ditching Windows.

 

[Sierra048]

Garak,

Great feedback. Thanks.

 

[ndfergy]

Hi Sierra048,

Windows 8/10 have "Fast Startup" enabled by default. This is a quasi hibernation mode that short cuts the boot process to a previous state. To run dual boot you must turn this off (or do a hard boot each time).

I'm on W10 but the path (blue then yellow) on the sreenshots below should be similar.

Hope that helps.

 

[Garak]

Yes, that could be another thing to watch for. My Windows is using the hybrid shutdown, but it didn't interfere with the dual boot. The only issue I have is I can't access the Windows partition from Linux, which really doesn't matter to me.

 

[ndfergy]

Garak:

OK, thought the truncated process stored in main memory from persistent memory stored on the HDD would be an issue. Guess not, although it certainly can't hurt. I have Linux Mint set up in my guest bedroom, but I must admit, I'm not that well versed on it. Would having the timeout on the efi bootloader set at 0 seconds be an issue?

Sierra048:

I've just scrolled through all the replies an I see no mention of turning off "Fast Boot" in the uefi/bios. Have you done this?

 

[Garak]

It's not an issue in my layout and install with that hybrid Windows business. That certainly may not be the case for others, and is worthy of disabling to see if it resolves issues that some might be having. As for timeout, I have mine set at 2 seconds. I would gather at zero seconds, a menu should still show up, but one would need to be quick.

Mine defaults to Mint if I'm late. By the time I turn the computer on, then hit the monitor, I've usually missed the menu anyhow, which is fine since I'm going to Mint 99% of the time.

 

[Sierra048]

Originally Posted By: ndfergy
Garak:

OK, thought the truncated process stored in main memory from persistent memory stored on the HDD would be an issue. Guess not, although it certainly can't hurt. I have Linux Mint set up in my guest bedroom, but I must admit, I'm not that well versed on it. Would having the timeout on the efi bootloader set at 0 seconds be an issue?

Sierra048:

I've just scrolled through all the replies an I see no mention of turning off "Fast Boot" in the uefi/bios. Have you done this?


Are fast start-up and fast boot the same thing? I'm not home right now so I can't check just yet. My guess is that it is not turned off as I wasn't aware of it until these last few posts. I hope to check later on today.

I didn't have the chance to post some issues I've run into before I left home. I'm not knocking Linux Mint as I plan to switch permanently once I finish using it for a while and looking for any issues that might pop up.

Ramdon thoughts so far and keeping in mind my novice skill level:

1) This might just be "newbee" talk but installing programs is a little different. Not hard once I got the hang of it but a little confusing at first.

2) This issue is more on Windows I think. I tried to install a recovery image of Windows on my Seagate external drive so when I finally took the 100% Mint option I would have a way to get my computer operable again given any problems. But it wouldn't work because the drive was formatted with FAT32 instead of NTFS. I had absolutely no idea what either was, but Windows needed NTFS, so I started to search for information. What I found stopped me from doing it altogether. There were numerous articles on the Mint support site of people with the same issue I had that were not having any luck. It was too complicated for me to understand so I just left well enough alone. I didn't want to make my Seagate unusable.

3) Trying to set up my email accounts in Thunderbied. Both of my Hotmail accounts were easily created and worked fine. I have a Yahoo account that I wanted to add but it wouldn't create it due to a " POP Server" setting in Yahoo itself, according to articles I read with others having the same issue.

I have no earthly idea what they are talking about. Lastly, I tried to add my Gmail account but that didn't work because of "cookies" being disabled in Google or Gmail. I wasn't sure which one, or was it both. Again,

4) I installed the Audacity music player. Much too involved for what I need, and you guessed it, I didn't even know what to do with most of the stuff that it offered. But I was able to start a song using the program. I decided to just uninstall it. Now, when the standard screen saver kicks in, it's supposed to be just the time relocated around the screen occassionally but the information to the song I played is on the screen, as well as the controls thing you would use to pause, fast forward etc... I have no idea how to get rid of it. The program itself is alreasy uninstalled.

None of these things are deal breakers for me using Linux Mint. Just some confusing things I'd like to solve.

I'll let you know later about the fast start-up, fast boot setting.

 

[terry274]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Yes, that could be another thing to watch for. My Windows is using the hybrid shutdown, but it didn't interfere with the dual boot. The only issue I have is I can't access the Windows partition from Linux, which really doesn't matter to me.


If you boot into Windows and choose "restart" rather than "shutdown" and then select Linux when the prompt comes up you should be able to access the Windows partition. This is due to the way Windows chooses to restart "cleanly" vs. a hybrid "fake" shutdown.

 

[ndfergy]

Hi Sierra048,

Thank God it's Friday!

I see you have a few more issues. No problem but to be honest I would be more inclined to recommend you getting a new hard drive and install Linux on it separately keeping your current drive with W8.1 on a separate port (if possible) or removed an stored as back up. Having said that:

See this link for various email set ups with IMAP

Your Audacity uninstall left a trace file (mini player image?). Try right clicking to delete or do a file search and delete.

We'll worry about your external drive later.

I need a few things from you:

- Is this a laptop or desktop?
- Do you have the installation disk or just the recovery/repair disk (if you're unsure of the difference the install will come with the Product Key; the recovery/repair disk works in conjunction with the recovery partition on your HDD for authorization).

Provide me a screenshot of the examples below from windows (you can use the windows snipping tool > save > upload online image on this site):

Control Panel > system and security > administrative tools > create and format hard drive partitions > red instructions



Control panel > system and security > system


Thanks,

Note: I'll be out for awhile so chances are I won't get back to you until tomorrow.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Are fast start-up and fast boot the same thing? I'm not home right now so I can't check just yet. My guess is that it is not turned off as I wasn't aware of it until these last few posts. I hope to check later on today.

I believe so. It's worth a try, anyhow.

I didn't have the chance to post some issues I've run into before I left home. I'm not knocking Linux Mint as I plan to switch permanently once I finish using it for a while and looking for any issues that might pop up. As for some of the other issues, any working hard drive can be reformatted in other ways, so don't even worry about that. For email, use webmail as you always did. I've used POP type accounts and Thunderbird (and its predecessors) for years, so that's no problem for me. It's not always convenient, though, much less easy. As for music, just download VLC. That will do videos and music.

Terry: I've tried the restart from Windows, and still got the error message trying to mount the partition in Windows. It was mostly a curiosity thing. I have no need to access my Windows partition from Linux, since I only use Windows for games.