Federal HST HPs vs. Federal Punch HP's

[mr_boring]

From my foxhole based on military experience and [civilian] logistics, I have seen this:

o High consequence and very likely to be scrutinized after the fact things like issued duty ammo, once "approved" and fielded by a significant "player" will be mirrored by MANY
o It is not a must field "NOW" thing, so the approval/purchasing "Agents" will put the manufacturers / developers thru the ringer with seemingly endless testing and evaluation. The time and money this takes cannot be understated (i.e. The US Army taking 5 years+ to change from the M9 to the M17)
o Once approved and fielded head offices will be very hesitant to deviate from it. Different "Agencies/Companies" not willing or wanting to go thru the fielding/testing pain themselves will just call for the known and approved thing.
o Additionally, they quickly committed to contracts and processes locked into the approved thing (No substitutions)
o In short order, other things with multiple variables will spec this now approved thing (Again, to reduce variables) i.e. all Army testing for the new 9mm was done with the same NATO 9mm ball.... Change up the ammo and end results become possibly unknown

o Example: the HST is 100% vetted and fielded, it is a known low risk component. No way of knowing for sure, but if say the Punch ammo is 95% as effective and 99% as reliable for 20% less, the head office simply will not deviate from the known/proven.... The head office is just not willing to invest the time and $ to find out IOT save [x], they have bigger fish to fry; it's not broke and no point trying to fix it

FWIW: 9mm & .357; I have a small qty of HST I carry; I have been backfilling with Punch and Sig carry ammo to save ~20%. In a year or two It will be gone and I'll probably stick with just Punch/Sig SD. .45acp: I have a lifetime supply of Speer Gold-Dot, honestly I wish I had the $ and a 20/80 % mix of "Spec" -vs- "Probably just as good" (Maybe some day I figure out a way to trade it, more likely my kids will sell it off at a penny a round when I'm gone LOL)

The Sig VCrowns in 9mm went though a minor design change about 2-3 years ago. They are pretty good. Loaded a little hotter than some +p which helps - they used to fail in cloth occasionally, not as much anymore. Mine are all 2 years old, and I've yet to have one not expand when I've wrapped old jeans around water or pork. I'd buy more if they were cheaper than HST for me.

I weighed some VCrowns and some HSTs a few night ago just for funsies. Both 124 - and the VCrowns are all heavier by about 2-3/10 of a gram. Could be the case or bullet, but I think its powder. I've got to save a couple of spent casings from each and compare next.

If I had a lifetime supply of Gold Dots I'd be in high cotton. I probably honestly have a lifetime supply of carry ammo if I'd just quit shooting it all up and go back to changing it out a couple of times a year - but it's just so fun to bust out of date cans of beans and soup and the like.

I've also got plenty of JHP's that don't really expand and a bunch of ones that expand well enough to do the job but aren't as pretty as the high dollar stuff............ but that's for the upcoming zombie apocalypse.

 

[pbm]

OP here...I hadn't looked at this thread after reading Post #3 and answering in Post #5. I bought a couple of boxes of the Punch based on price and the article saying they are both very good. In NY there are so many restrictions on where you can carry that I don't carry. As I stated before...I need to carry when I go into NYC but the powers that be won't allow it so my pistol is basically a home defense gun. Did you know that starting in Sept. 2023 NY requires a 'background check' to buy ammo....unbelievable.

 

[ripcord]

From my foxhole based on military experience and [civilian] logistics, I have seen this:

o High consequence and very likely to be scrutinized after the fact things like issued duty ammo, once "approved" and fielded by a significant "player" will be mirrored by MANY
o It is not a must field "NOW" thing, so the approval/purchasing "Agents" will put the manufacturers / developers thru the ringer with seemingly endless testing and evaluation. The time and money this takes cannot be understated (i.e. The US Army taking 5 years+ to change from the M9 to the M17)
o Once approved and fielded head offices will be very hesitant to deviate from it. Different "Agencies/Companies" not willing or wanting to go thru the fielding/testing pain themselves will just call for the known and approved thing.
o Additionally, they quickly committed to contracts and processes locked into the approved thing (No substitutions)
o In short order, other things with multiple variables will spec this now approved thing (Again, to reduce variables) i.e. all Army testing for the new 9mm was done with the same NATO 9mm ball.... Change up the ammo and end results become possibly unknown

o Example: the HST is 100% vetted and fielded, it is a known low risk component. No way of knowing for sure, but if say the Punch ammo is 95% as effective and 99% as reliable for 20% less, the head office simply will not deviate from the known/proven.... The head office is just not willing to invest the time and $ to find out IOT save [x], they have bigger fish to fry; it's not broke and no point trying to fix it

FWIW: 9mm & .357; I have a small qty of HST I carry; I have been backfilling with Punch and Sig carry ammo to save ~20%. In a year or two It will be gone and I'll probably stick with just Punch/Sig SD. .45acp: I have a lifetime supply of Speer Gold-Dot, honestly I wish I had the $ and a 20/80 % mix of "Spec" -vs- "Probably just as good" (Maybe some day I figure out a way to trade it, more likely my kids will sell it off at a penny a round when I'm gone LOL)

They can't sell it if you shoot it all up. You can't take it with you, though you might be able to to take some bad guys along when you go, lol.

 

[HouseTiger]

Federal 9 BPLE 115gr +P+ Street proven for over 30 years.

 

[burbguy82]

Well, if you’re going to go all Rick Grimes, you need to find some .357 Magnum for your Colt Python, not this little 9mm stuff…

I could have sworn that Shane had referred to Ricks gun as a 44 magnum in one episode. Something about inventory of the ammo at the farm maybe. But I suppose that would have been a Cobra not a python. Wow, learn good stuff here all the time!

 

[burbguy82]

Just because of the box I bought one of these when they first came out. I went looking through my 9mm stash to see if I could find it after you posted this, I couldn't find it. I lost a box of gun stuff after I moved in 2020, didn't realize it until I went looking for something very particular (my LC9 box) last year. I so wanted to go all Rick Grimes when the zombie apocalypse hits.

View attachment 203474

For a while that stuff was way cheaper than the orange tipped counterparts, same stuff though. Amazing how a TV show will influence different markets.

 

[mr_boring]

I could have sworn that Shane had referred to Ricks gun as a 44 magnum in one episode. Something about inventory of the ammo at the farm maybe. But I suppose that would have been a Cobra not a python. Wow, learn good stuff here all the time!

I didn't even bother reminding him the Rick carried a 92 a few times. So technically I still could have been Rick with my 92 and my Zombie Max

 

[MRC01]

... In NY there are so many restrictions on where you can carry that I don't carry. As I stated before...I need to carry when I go into NYC but the powers that be won't allow it so my pistol is basically a home defense gun. ...

When NY state was forced into "shall-issue" licensing, the state responding by expanding off-limits areas so broadly that the permits were effectively useless. Then many sheriffs responded by saying they will not enforce those provisions. Essentially, they say that if they encounter someone who is carrying and does have a permit, they won't cite or arrest that person for violating off-limits areas, but only if that person is committing some other offense.
Here's a NYT link that gets you past the paywall.

Another Challenge to New York’s Gun Law: Sheriffs Who Won’t Enforce It (Published 2022)

Some say the measure, which was passed after a Supreme Court opinion, ignores common sense, the Second Amendment and the way people live outside big cities.

www.nytimes.com

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