FCA Jeep/Ram changed Oil spec on Ecodiesel

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1500-diesel-mechanical/8564-eco-diesel-engine-failures.html


the motors are garbage


I was considering a Jeep GC diesel. I did my homework and decided the diesel wasn't for me at the time. Hopefully they get it sorted out, and if our driving conditions change in the next few years I'd reconsider it. The Internet has a tendency to amplify problems, this engine seems to have quite a few, but I wouldn't consider it garbage yet.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1500-diesel-mechanical/8564-eco-diesel-engine-failures.html

the motors are garbage
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
they also have oil cooler failures, check out the cummins forum

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/4th-ge...n-issues-4.html

There's no need to be so excited. I don't it's quite as bad as you'd like us to believe. 2004 Volkswagens had problems too.

 

[pb379]

So, what is the MS-10902 spec? Is it just reference to CJ-4? I've not seen it on any PDS for T6, Delvac 1 or DELO.

 

[Garak]

Another spoke in the spider web of Chrysler oil specifications.

 

[2004tdigls]

LOL I KNOW

my 2004 pd engine has a tendency to munch its camshaft

oh, and they have lift pump failures, egr cooler failures, clogging intakes

i never said my car was better

 

[TiredTrucker]

Cummins just continues to have cam issues. It really started with the ISX 15L and seems to have spread. Every one I have seen that ate cams on the 15L version, it seems to center around metallurgy and not anything about oil.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Cummins just continues to have cam issues. It really started with the ISX 15L and seems to have spread. Every one I have seen that ate cams on the 15L version, it seems to center around metallurgy and not anything about oil.
Out of round bores, bad rings are a couple other issues Cummins engines are having as well.

 

[pb379]

Originally Posted By: pb379
So, what is the MS-10902 spec? Is it just reference to CJ-4? I've not seen it on any PDS for T6, Delvac 1 or DELO.


No one knows?

 

[edyvw]

This is patching engineering problem with heavier oils. What is going to happen once DPF's start to fail?
Who is going to cover that?
Why BMW's, MB's diesels do not have issues with 5W30 C3's?
70% of Europe runs on C3 5W30's running 100+mph etc on HWY's, but RAM's have issues?

 

[pb379]

Well, DPFs are only covered for 80,000 miles, so after that the owner will pay.

I believe it may have more to do with RAM service people can't differentiate between Euro L 5W30 and regular Pennz platinum 5W30. It is easier to tell bubba oil guy diesel gets T6.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: pb379
Well, DPFs are only covered for 80,000 miles, so after that the owner will pay.

I believe it may have more to do with RAM service people can't differentiate between Euro L 5W30 and regular Pennz platinum 5W30. It is easier to tell bubba oil guy diesel gets T6.

Oh yeah, that is why I change my own oil.
Well if you believe that, why you do not chnage oil on your own and use M1 5W30 ESP>?

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
This is patching engineering problem with heavier oils. What is going to happen once DPF's start to fail?
Who is going to cover that?
Why BMW's, MB's diesels do not have issues with 5W30 C3's?
70% of Europe runs on C3 5W30's running 100+mph etc on HWY's, but RAM's have issues?





What makes you think rams and jeeps have the same issues in Europe?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: edyvw
This is patching engineering problem with heavier oils. What is going to happen once DPF's start to fail?
Who is going to cover that?
Why BMW's, MB's diesels do not have issues with 5W30 C3's?
70% of Europe runs on C3 5W30's running 100+mph etc on HWY's, but RAM's have issues?





What makes you think rams and jeeps have the same issues in Europe?

Well, you cannot buy RAM in Europe, but you can some cars with same engine, and they are not popular at all.
FIAT diesel go to engine above 200hp in Europe is not V6, but 2.4 JTD 5cyl, which is much better engine (owned one of the earlier models with 150hp).
As for issues in Europe, my point is that it is not C3 oil, because I saw some posts about how all this is because of CAFE and EPA. 70% of cars in EU are diesels, mostly running on C3 oils, and everything is fine, running much longer OCI's then here in the U.S.
It is either problem in dealerships where mechanics cannot distinguish between oil for HEMI and oil for diesel, or there is engineering problem with engine.

 

[islip]

Does this include the North American version of this engine ie VM Motori L630 3.0L or only the European VM Motori A630 3.0L version as stated by the OP?

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: pb379
Well, DPFs are only covered for 80,000 miles, so after that the owner will pay.

I believe it may have more to do with RAM service people can't differentiate between Euro L 5W30 and regular Pennz platinum 5W30. It is easier to tell bubba oil guy diesel gets T6.


You may be right! MB had a problem with dealers not putting in the correct oil. The diesels required esp 5-40M and the gas engines required 5-40M. Dealers were using esp5-40 in all gas and diesels so as to make sure the diesels got the right oil. It even says on the bottle "for gas and diesels". The problem was they had sludging issues in the gas engines with the 10k oci's. Mobil investigated and realized the problem. Our gasoline in NA + ESP oils+ long oci's doesn't do well.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: edyvw
This is patching engineering problem with heavier oils. What is going to happen once DPF's start to fail?
Who is going to cover that?
Why BMW's, MB's diesels do not have issues with 5W30 C3's?
70% of Europe runs on C3 5W30's running 100+mph etc on HWY's, but RAM's have issues?





What makes you think rams and jeeps have the same issues in Europe?

Well, you cannot buy RAM in Europe, but you can some cars with same engine, and they are not popular at all.
FIAT diesel go to engine above 200hp in Europe is not V6, but 2.4 JTD 5cyl, which is much better engine (owned one of the earlier models with 150hp).
As for issues in Europe, my point is that it is not C3 oil, because I saw some posts about how all this is because of CAFE and EPA. 70% of cars in EU are diesels, mostly running on C3 oils, and everything is fine, running much longer OCI's then here in the U.S.
It is either problem in dealerships where mechanics cannot distinguish between oil for HEMI and oil for diesel, or there is engineering problem with engine.


The 2.4 hasn't been available for 6 years now. But I agree, most likely they just got dealer bulk oil which will not have been C3 or A3/B4. I'm not sure, did Chrysler/Dodge ever use Mercedes engines requiring MB229.5 or 229.51 oils?

Ram can be bought here, btw. I think it's the most popular of the American trucks. But most aren't diesels as the reason for wanting such a truck is usually the V8 engine.

I say there are some issues with C3 oil, from observation, but it's more to do with running longer than conditions allow and doesn't result in throwing rods. Gas powered cars are more affected.

The v6 diesel is quite popular with Maseratis, I think about half of them might have this engine (pushing 275 hp). Haven't heard about issues, so far.

 

[pb379]

So, with the Diesel Supplement reading this-

Quote:
Engine Oil
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer recom- mends engine oils that meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and that are API CJ-4 certified and meet the requirements of FCA LLC.

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade)
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4 engine oil category is required.


So would an ACEA A3/B4 oil be better than a regular API CJ-4 oil?

Sort of a Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 vs Shell Rotella T6.

What do you think?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: pb379
So, with the Diesel Supplement reading this-

Quote:
Engine Oil
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer recom- mends engine oils that meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and that are API CJ-4 certified and meet the requirements of FCA LLC.

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade)
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4 engine oil category is required.


So would an ACEA A3/B4 oil be better than a regular API CJ-4 oil?

Sort of a Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 vs Shell Rotella T6.

What do you think?

I would still go with Mid-SAPS C3 oil in 5W40 grade.
Motul X-Clean 5W40 is pretty heavy (14.2cst).

 

[pb379]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: pb379
So, with the Diesel Supplement reading this-

Quote:
Engine Oil
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer recom- mends engine oils that meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and that are API CJ-4 certified and meet the requirements of FCA LLC.

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade)
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4 engine oil category is required.


So would an ACEA A3/B4 oil be better than a regular API CJ-4 oil?

Sort of a Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 vs Shell Rotella T6.

What do you think?

I would still go with Mid-SAPS C3 oil in 5W40 grade.
Motul X-Clean 5W40 is pretty heavy (14.2cst).


Why would you take Motul over something like M1 formula M 5W40?
Personal preference?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: pb379
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: pb379
So, with the Diesel Supplement reading this-

Quote:
Engine Oil
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer recom- mends engine oils that meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and that are API CJ-4 certified and meet the requirements of FCA LLC.

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade)
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4 engine oil category is required.


So would an ACEA A3/B4 oil be better than a regular API CJ-4 oil?

Sort of a Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 vs Shell Rotella T6.

What do you think?

I would still go with Mid-SAPS C3 oil in 5W40 grade.
Motul X-Clean 5W40 is pretty heavy (14.2cst).


Why would you take Motul over something like M1 formula M 5W40?
Personal preference?

I was thinking because of SAPS. Formula M is still High SAPS oil, although SA is 0.9 which is on lower side.
Motul X-Clean is typical Mid-SAPS oil.
However, considering availability, I would go with Valvoline 5W40 MST. M1 Forumla M and Valvoline MST 5W40 have same HTHS of 3.7cp, while Valvoline has SA at 0.76.
But again you are concerned with warranty, so if you want heavier oils just stick to Delvac.