Faulty Electronics? Not so, says NHTSA

[82DMC12]

NY Times story

So, basically it comes down a couple dealers who put the wrong floor mats in, one or two defective accelerators, and a whole bunch of idiots who don't know how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

You know it's true, coming from an administration that would love to see Toyota in flames.

 

[brianl703]

So, it appears, that "idiots who don't know how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their actions" are more often found behind the wheel of a Toyota than other makes.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
NY Times story

So, basically it comes down a couple dealers who put the wrong floor mats in, one or two defective accelerators, and a whole bunch of idiots who don't know how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

You know it's true, coming from an administration that would love to see Toyota in flames.

I think you're being a bit too strident. Although I share your suspicions about what proportion of cases were due to driver error, this article doesn't even mention that. All it does is shut the door on people who were blaming the electronics.

I also think your statement about the administration is completely unwarranted. The population cried out for blood, so the administration did what it could (within reason) to enforce the law and act tough while doing it. I don't think that means they wanted to take Toyota down.

 

[lexus114]

figured this whole thing was bogus.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
So, it appears, that "idiots who don't know how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their actions" are more often found behind the wheel of a Toyota than other makes.


That's quite possible, actually. Even more so in light of the hysteria that ensued the initial burst of recalls.

 

[82DMC12]

Statistically, you are probably right. Not to mention everyone jumping on the bandwagon once the possibilty of defect was found.


Originally Posted By: brianl703
So, it appears, that "idiots who don't know how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their actions" are more often found behind the wheel of a Toyota than other makes.

 

[82DMC12]

I don't own a Toyota. That being said, the article says this:

"As with Tuesday’s report, the preliminary examination given to Congress in August found no evidence of flawed electronics in 58 of the vehicles that crashed. That examination found only one instance in which an accelerator pedal became trapped under a floor mat and none in which a pedal became stuck or sprang back too slowly."

To me, that seems to say, without really saying it, that the majority of problems were likely driver error and not mechanical or electronic. How else can we explain the sudden rash of problems as soon as the original Lexus was reported? And then they all disappeared?

After the bailouts, I believe this administration was grinning as they saw evil Toyota get thrown under the bus. Just my opinion.

Andy

 

[Kestas]

Like I said in my earlier threads, "I'll wait until the problem is thoroughly investigated and the jury makes their decision". I have high regard for NHTSA. We know that "senior moments" happen every day. Many of them are shown on TruTV.

Read into the story behind the sudden acceleration problem with Audi back in the mid-80s. You'll appreciate how mass hysteria plays a big part in these stories.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
I don't own a Toyota. That being said, the article says this:

"As with Tuesday’s report, the preliminary examination given to Congress in August found no evidence of flawed electronics in 58 of the vehicles that crashed. That examination found only one instance in which an accelerator pedal became trapped under a floor mat and none in which a pedal became stuck or sprang back too slowly."

Looks like they've been editing the article since you posted it. If you check again, they removed the number 58.

Either way, I stand corrected on the point that the article doesn't mention anything about the proportion of driver error. I would still caution you against speaking too strongly on this point without at least having examined the original report, though.


Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
To me, that seems to say, without really saying it, that the majority of problems were likely driver error and not mechanical or electronic. How else can we explain the sudden rash of problems as soon as the original Lexus was reported? And then they all disappeared?

This is a plausible explanation that is better than the "killer Toyota" idea at fitting the observed data. It's good enough for you and me to form provisional conclusions. It is not proof.


Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
After the bailouts, I believe this administration was grinning as they saw evil Toyota get thrown under the bus. Just my opinion.

Grinning, maybe. That's quite a different thing from acting to facilitate that outcome, wouldn't you say?

 

[L_Sludger]

Now NASA says the same.

 

[rslifkin]

BrianL - It's true. I've started referring to Rav4 drivers as Rav4ons (morons) because of how obnoxiously wimpy and slow they always are when pulling out onto roads, etc. Most Toyota drivers are pretty inept, and happened to buy Toyotas because they heard good things about them.

It's much the same issue as how some car washes classify the 93 - 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee as a sudden acceleration hazard. There was a very rare issue on the early ones (that was corrected in a recall, and didn't exist in most years) where the cruise control wiring shorted and pulled the throttle to WOT. However, it only happened a couple of times.

When I see pictures of carwash carnage involving a 96 - 98 model that "suddenly accelerated", all I can think is "idiot hit the gas instead of the brakes, and won't admit it". People then tried to claim that the gas and brake pedals are "dangerously" close together. They're a little closer than many vehicles, but the brake pedal sits up a bit higher, so between that and other things, it's still VERY obvious which one you're pushing.

 

[ryansride2017]

The whole fiasco just gave people more false ammunition to jump on the anti-Toyota bandwagon. Even on BITOG, I can remember one unnamed pro-domestic radical member who changed his signature to "Toyota, moving forward.....because it can't stop" or something similar.

 

[dailydriver]

WHO, exactly was "jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon"??

The WHOLE U.S. populace, almost in it's entirety at this point (sadly enough

), falsely believes that your beloved Nippon nameplate is absolutely and completely infallible.

So it seems to me that it was a fairly empty "bandwagon".

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
WHO, exactly was "jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon"??

The WHOLE U.S. populace, almost in it's entirety at this point (sadly enough

), falsely believes that your beloved Nippon nameplate is absolutely and completely infallible.

So it seems to me that it was a fairly empty "bandwagon".

False and inflammatory, and you know it. Come on, now.

 

[defektes]

Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
The whole fiasco just gave people more false ammunition to jump on the anti-Toyota bandwagon. Even on BITOG, I can remember one unnamed pro-domestic radical member who changed his signature to "Toyota, moving forward.....because it can't stop" or something similar.


cant blame them especially since most people falsely beleive they are the best thing since sliced bread and think they never have issues. I have owned a few toyotas new and used, they have their share of issues. They are not bullet proof as some claim, my American cars are just as good as toyota.

 

[jim302]

Originally Posted By: 82DMC12
NY Times story

So, basically it comes down a couple dealers who put the wrong floor mats in, one or two defective accelerators, and a whole bunch of idiots who don't know how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

You know it's true, coming from an administration that would love to see Toyota in flames.


This is what I have thought the whole time. Both of these things can happen with any car.

Once the media brought up a few cases, people who had accidents and were driving Toyota vehicles thought they could use the "unintended acceleration" excuse as a way to get out of any legal liability and to prevent their insurance rates from going up. No, officer, I wasn't texting... my car was just speeding up on its own and I couldn't stop it!

It wouldn't surprise me if a few people may have set up situations looking for a legal settlement. There are people who set up accidents for insurance fraud, and this would be another opportunity for those people. Not saying this happened... just mentioning it is possible.

There could have been the occasional panic situations where the driver thought they were hitting the brake pedal but were really going WOT. Sometimes people make mistakes.

In the end, this should be a wakeup call for improving driving skills. Had the drivers of these cars shifted into netural or depressed the clutch, the car would have stopped accelerating. At least for now, this is a completely mechanical operation in most cars (not sure about hybrids), so any faults with the electrical system or the PCM won't matter. I realize that people may panic in this situation, but it helps if people know their options in the first place.

As an interesting side note, Toyota now lists checking the floor mats in their maintenance schedules. I always thought this was obvious, and have always fixed, replaced, or removed any floor mat that won't stay put.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
WHO, exactly was "jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon"??

The WHOLE U.S. populace, almost in it's entirety at this point (sadly enough

), falsely believes that your beloved Nippon nameplate is absolutely and completely infallible.

So it seems to me that it was a fairly empty "bandwagon".

It simply amazes me how GM fans have the gall to spew at a successful and, forward-thinking and prudent auto manufacturer. Talk about living in a glass house.

YOU were foaming at the mouth during the Los Angeles Times-created false drama with the accelerator pedals. YOU were on that bandwagon. Don't be so fast to dismiss it.

 

[meangreen01]

Pay to play scam. Toyota got bent over by NHTSA and paid the extortion fee. Toyota will pay out or settle large civil claims in court. For shame.

 

[Autobahn88]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
WHO, exactly was "jumping on the anti-Toyota bandwagon"??

The WHOLE U.S. populace, almost in it's entirety at this point (sadly enough

), falsely believes that your beloved Nippon nameplate is absolutely and completely infallible.

So it seems to me that it was a fairly empty "bandwagon".

False and inflammatory, and you know it. Come on, now.

Yes it is. But the bias is humorous. Great comic relief.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: jim302

This is what I have thought the whole time. Both of these things can happen with any car.

Once the media brought up a few cases, people who had accidents and were driving Toyota vehicles thought they could use the "unintended acceleration" excuse as a way to get out of any legal liability and to prevent their insurance rates from going up. No, officer, I wasn't texting... my car was just speeding up on its own and I couldn't stop it!

It wouldn't surprise me if a few people may have set up situations looking for a legal settlement. There are people who set up accidents for insurance fraud, and this would be another opportunity for those people. Not saying this happened... just mentioning it is possible.

There could have been the occasional panic situations where the driver thought they were hitting the brake pedal but were really going WOT. Sometimes people make mistakes.

In the end, this should be a wakeup call for improving driving skills. Had the drivers of these cars shifted into netural or depressed the clutch, the car would have stopped accelerating. At least for now, this is a completely mechanical operation in most cars (not sure about hybrids), so any faults with the electrical system or the PCM won't matter. I realize that people may panic in this situation, but it helps if people know their options in the first place.

As an interesting side note, Toyota now lists checking the floor mats in their maintenance schedules. I always thought this was obvious, and have always fixed, replaced, or removed any floor mat that won't stay put.



Ding,ding,ding...we have a winner!!!

Add in the Obama Motors Media Machine too!